5 ms·

"Fixing the global food system. The damage this system wreaks is shocking." If we could only invent a teleportation device... Also, shipping massive amounts o

"Fixing the global food system. The damage this system wreaks is shocking." If we could only invent a teleportation device... Also, shipping massive amounts of free grain around the world wreaks havoc in local markets, driving small farmers out of business in poor countries. We need efficient supply chains, efficient market pricing and efficient crops, such as golden rice. Instead, we get governments interfering in market prices, blocking food supply chain companies in the name of "tradition" and blocking GMO development and usage in the name of religion and bogus science.

makomk 11y ago
Golden rice is basically useless except as a PR tool to clear the way for more profitable GMOs. Its only benefit is that it might provide an alternative to vitamin A supplementation if countries were allowed to grow it. Unfortunately, it's covered by a thicket of patents from about 30 companies, and the free patent licence is a PR stunt - almost all the countries it includes can't actually grow rice. The only country that's both permitted to grow it by the patent license and has the right climate to do so is the Philippines, which is why so much of the attention on golden rice is focused there (and even they're reliant on rice imports to feed their population). Sadly for golden rice's proponents, while they were still getting it to work the government there quietly dealt with the vitamin A deficiency problem through a more low-tech and effective technique: vitamen supplements. I'm pretty sure this is by design, by the way. The criteria for being licensed to grow golden rice is that the country grows less calories of food than it takes to support their population. Rice is so calorific that it's hard for a rice-growing country to meet this criteria, which is also why it's a popular staple food in developing countries and why rice was chosen in the first place.
- primroot 11y ago
  The issue of yields is also relevant. Here is a report from 2014. The original page has been changed. http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://irri.org/golden-rice/faqs/what-is-the-status-of-the-golden-rice-project-coordinated-by-irri http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://... "While the target level of beta-carotene in the grain was attained, average yield was unfortunately lower than that from comparable local varieties already preferred by farmers."
- 7sigma 11y ago
  This is pure anti GMO propaganda. "it's covered by a thicket of patents from about 30 companies" The patents have been waived for humanitarian purposes. Also rice is self polinating so of little interest to seed companies. http://www.goldenrice.org/Content1-Who/who4_IP.php http://www.goldenrice.org/Content1-Who/who4_IP.php "the government there quietly dealt with the vitamin A deficiency problem through a more low-tech and effective technique: vitamen supplements" Really? 250,000–500,000 children in developing countries become blind each year owing to VAD, with the highest prevalence in Southeast Asia and Africa. I guess in your world that qualifies as effective. Even if they did solve it with supplements, wouldn't it be better to solve it already in the food, instead of spending millions a year on supplements? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_A_deficiency https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_A_deficiency "The criteria for being licensed to grow golden rice is that the country grows less calories of food than it takes to support their population." Do you have any sources for this or are you just making it up? "Golden rice is basically useless except as a PR tool to clear the way for more profitable GMOs" A classic anti GMO talking point with no basis in fact. Just because corporations use genetic engineering doesn't mean it can't be used for altruistic purposes. Have you considered the possibility that people are actually trying to solve a problem that kills tens of thousands and blinds countless more every year? I guess its easier to believe in conspiracy theories.
  - makomk 11y ago
    "Do you have any sources for this or are you just making it up?" My source for this is the page you linked: "Humanitarian use" means "Use in developing countries (low-income, food-deficit countries as defined by FAO)". The FAO's definition of a low-income, food deficit country is that they're forced to import food because they don't grow enough calories to feed their population, and their income must also be below a threshold. See http://www.fao.org/countryprofiles/lifdc/en/ http://www.fao.org/countryprofiles/lifdc/en/ Though my information is slightly outdated in one area: the Phillipines are no longer on the FAO list as of this year because they're too wealthy. "Really? 250,000–500,000 children in developing countries become blind each year owing to VAD, with the highest prevalence in Southeast Asia and Africa. I guess in your world that qualifies as effective" Golden rice cannot help them under the current licensing regime, because most or all of those countries can't grow rice and even if the humanitarian use license did include any that could, it forbids exporting golden rice - it's strictly for internal consumption only. The page you linked makes this restriction very clear.
super-serial 11y ago
Over the last few years I've seen many comments on Hacker News that are pro-GMO. The thing is... I don't understand how any respectable developer could support programming DNA with current technologies. You know how they code new organisms? They rip out code from one organism and then they randomly insert it somewhere in the DNA code of another organism. They do this thousands of times... 99.999% of the time the cell dies. So they keep trying to compile random variations of code and it keeps crashing. But let's say they get lucky one time and the code compiles. The cell lives, and then they use that cell to create a new organism. If that organism has the one property they wanted to port over from the new DNA code, they call it a success. They don't do any unit testing, they can't possibly test every scenario this new organism would be used in production, and yet no one cares. Would any software developer use a process like this in a production environment? No - it's obvious this way of coding would would cause drastic unintended consequences. With GMOs you get malformed proteins, new chemicals/toxins, and interbreeding with other plants that could cause even more unintended consequences. Usually I'm all for technological progress. But until we understand DNA inside and out and can precisely edit just the code we want, GMOs seem very dangerous.
- ucaetano 11y ago
  I'm not "pro-GMO". Not against it either. "Would any software developer use a process like this in a production environment?" Would any engineer use software development techniques in building a bridge? Absolutely not. Hold on, I'll build a mock bridge, run a test truck on top to see if it holds. If it doesn't, I'll just build a new one. Don't compare disciplines which have enormously different requirements. With all dues respect, the world isn't just software engineering.
  - super-serial 11y ago
    Sorry I didn't mean to label you. I still think the analogy holds because DNA is so much like source code. If software keeps eating the world maybe everything else will be software too... well I can only hope.
    - 11y ago

makomk 11y ago

Golden rice is basically useless except as a PR tool to clear the way for more profitable GMOs. Its only benefit is that it might provide an alternative to vitamin A supplementation if countries were allowed to grow it. Unfortunately, it's covered by a thicket of patents from about 30 companies, and the free patent licence is a PR stunt - almost all the countries it includes can't actually grow rice. The only country that's both permitted to grow it by the patent license and has the right climate to do so is the Philippines, which is why so much of the attention on golden rice is focused there (and even they're reliant on rice imports to feed their population). Sadly for golden rice's proponents, while they were still getting it to work the government there quietly dealt with the vitamin A deficiency problem through a more low-tech and effective technique: vitamen supplements. I'm pretty sure this is by design, by the way. The criteria for being licensed to grow golden rice is that the country grows less calories of food than it takes to support their population. Rice is so calorific that it's hard for a rice-growing country to meet this criteria, which is also why it's a popular staple food in developing countries and why rice was chosen in the first place.

primroot 11y ago
The issue of yields is also relevant. Here is a report from 2014. The original page has been changed. http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://irri.org/golden-rice/faqs/what-is-the-status-of-the-golden-rice-project-coordinated-by-irri http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://... "While the target level of beta-carotene in the grain was attained, average yield was unfortunately lower than that from comparable local varieties already preferred by farmers."
7sigma 11y ago
This is pure anti GMO propaganda. "it's covered by a thicket of patents from about 30 companies" The patents have been waived for humanitarian purposes. Also rice is self polinating so of little interest to seed companies. http://www.goldenrice.org/Content1-Who/who4_IP.php http://www.goldenrice.org/Content1-Who/who4_IP.php "the government there quietly dealt with the vitamin A deficiency problem through a more low-tech and effective technique: vitamen supplements" Really? 250,000–500,000 children in developing countries become blind each year owing to VAD, with the highest prevalence in Southeast Asia and Africa. I guess in your world that qualifies as effective. Even if they did solve it with supplements, wouldn't it be better to solve it already in the food, instead of spending millions a year on supplements? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_A_deficiency https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_A_deficiency "The criteria for being licensed to grow golden rice is that the country grows less calories of food than it takes to support their population." Do you have any sources for this or are you just making it up? "Golden rice is basically useless except as a PR tool to clear the way for more profitable GMOs" A classic anti GMO talking point with no basis in fact. Just because corporations use genetic engineering doesn't mean it can't be used for altruistic purposes. Have you considered the possibility that people are actually trying to solve a problem that kills tens of thousands and blinds countless more every year? I guess its easier to believe in conspiracy theories.
- makomk 11y ago
  "Do you have any sources for this or are you just making it up?" My source for this is the page you linked: "Humanitarian use" means "Use in developing countries (low-income, food-deficit countries as defined by FAO)". The FAO's definition of a low-income, food deficit country is that they're forced to import food because they don't grow enough calories to feed their population, and their income must also be below a threshold. See http://www.fao.org/countryprofiles/lifdc/en/ http://www.fao.org/countryprofiles/lifdc/en/ Though my information is slightly outdated in one area: the Phillipines are no longer on the FAO list as of this year because they're too wealthy. "Really? 250,000–500,000 children in developing countries become blind each year owing to VAD, with the highest prevalence in Southeast Asia and Africa. I guess in your world that qualifies as effective" Golden rice cannot help them under the current licensing regime, because most or all of those countries can't grow rice and even if the humanitarian use license did include any that could, it forbids exporting golden rice - it's strictly for internal consumption only. The page you linked makes this restriction very clear.

super-serial 11y ago

Over the last few years I've seen many comments on Hacker News that are pro-GMO. The thing is... I don't understand how any respectable developer could support programming DNA with current technologies. You know how they code new organisms? They rip out code from one organism and then they randomly insert it somewhere in the DNA code of another organism. They do this thousands of times... 99.999% of the time the cell dies. So they keep trying to compile random variations of code and it keeps crashing. But let's say they get lucky one time and the code compiles. The cell lives, and then they use that cell to create a new organism. If that organism has the one property they wanted to port over from the new DNA code, they call it a success. They don't do any unit testing, they can't possibly test every scenario this new organism would be used in production, and yet no one cares. Would any software developer use a process like this in a production environment? No - it's obvious this way of coding would would cause drastic unintended consequences. With GMOs you get malformed proteins, new chemicals/toxins, and interbreeding with other plants that could cause even more unintended consequences. Usually I'm all for technological progress. But until we understand DNA inside and out and can precisely edit just the code we want, GMOs seem very dangerous.

ucaetano 11y ago
I'm not "pro-GMO". Not against it either. "Would any software developer use a process like this in a production environment?" Would any engineer use software development techniques in building a bridge? Absolutely not. Hold on, I'll build a mock bridge, run a test truck on top to see if it holds. If it doesn't, I'll just build a new one. Don't compare disciplines which have enormously different requirements. With all dues respect, the world isn't just software engineering.
- super-serial 11y ago
  Sorry I didn't mean to label you. I still think the analogy holds because DNA is so much like source code. If software keeps eating the world maybe everything else will be software too... well I can only hope.
  - 11y ago