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Honest question, have you ever worked for a bank? Many still run on AS/400 mainframes in the backends. Knowing what I know, that comment actually couldn't be fu

by SEJeff 11y ago

Honest question, have you ever worked for a bank? Many still run on AS/400 mainframes in the backends. Knowing what I know, that comment actually couldn't be further from the truth. Banks are insanely risk adverse, and rightfully so. If it works perfectly, they absolutely will not change it, even if the newer shinier tech has real benefits. Source: I don't work for a bank, but have worked in electronic trading for the past 8 years and work directly with the (in)competent tech teams from other banks to clear and reconcile trading bits.

lettergram 11y ago
Using AS/400 systems would make them a computer service company. I actually work at a bank (developing apps) and we use a massive COBOL system for a lot of data. However, we also have a massive Hadoop cluster (much larger than the COBOL systems, and firewalls everywhere. Banks might not be the most competent at web programming, but they higher a ridiculous number of awesome security folks. I would still put them behind Apple or Google in their given domains, but many banks have pretty robust technical systems for their domain.
- Margh 11y ago
  Every bank I've ever been with has had a pathetic limit on its online banking passwords. One of them (NAB) was limited to something like 10 characters and only numbers and letters. Maybe that's changed recently but still, firewalls won't help you when somebody brute forces your users' passwords in 10 minutes.
pc86 11y ago
> Many still run on AS/400 mainframes in the backends. Are you implying that using old technology makes it somehow incompetent? I don't know about you, but I absolutely do not want my financial institutions to be running their risk analysis software in Node just because someone wants to try it out.
- SEJeff 11y ago
  Nope. I'm implying that they don't use the latest and greatest or "best tech". I'm agreeing with your opinion and having worked with the tech teams of banks am confirming it as truth via firsthand experience.
  - bostonpete 11y ago
    So which part of simonh's comment were you saying couldn't be further from the truth? I didn't see anything in his comment about the latest and greatest or "best tech".
  - spiralpolitik 11y ago
    Like in any industry there are good teams and bad teams. Working in finance verses working in say social does not automatically make you a bad developer. Culturally there are two things make finance different. One is that it is a hideously conservative and risk adverse. AS/400's are used because they are well understood, very reliable, and supported by someone other than an attention deficit teenager in a bedroom. Second is that mainstream finance doesn't see itself as a technology industry. There are areas like quant investment and high frequency trading that are, but most finance companies still look at technology as a line item on the budget rather than the foundation that their business is based on. This is changing slowly (see one) but will mostly likely require an external disruption to push change through any quicker.
    - SEJeff 11y ago
      Entirely agreed on all points. I work in hft and only am in this industry due to the fantastic bleeding edge tech.
uxcn 11y ago
I have seen systems that ran on hardware as old as DEC VAXs as late as 2008, but I'm not sure the reason behind not transitioning was risk aversion. Regardless, there aren't formal controls in place. Otherwise issues like Knight Capital [1] wouldn't have happened. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knight_Capital_Group#2012_stock_trading_disruption https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knight_Capital_Group#2012_stoc...

by SEJeff 11y ago

lettergram 11y ago

Using AS/400 systems would make them a computer service company. I actually work at a bank (developing apps) and we use a massive COBOL system for a lot of data. However, we also have a massive Hadoop cluster (much larger than the COBOL systems, and firewalls everywhere. Banks might not be the most competent at web programming, but they higher a ridiculous number of awesome security folks. I would still put them behind Apple or Google in their given domains, but many banks have pretty robust technical systems for their domain.

Margh 11y ago
Every bank I've ever been with has had a pathetic limit on its online banking passwords. One of them (NAB) was limited to something like 10 characters and only numbers and letters. Maybe that's changed recently but still, firewalls won't help you when somebody brute forces your users' passwords in 10 minutes.

pc86 11y ago

> Many still run on AS/400 mainframes in the backends. Are you implying that using old technology makes it somehow incompetent? I don't know about you, but I absolutely do not want my financial institutions to be running their risk analysis software in Node just because someone wants to try it out.

SEJeff 11y ago
Nope. I'm implying that they don't use the latest and greatest or "best tech". I'm agreeing with your opinion and having worked with the tech teams of banks am confirming it as truth via firsthand experience.
- bostonpete 11y ago
  So which part of simonh's comment were you saying couldn't be further from the truth? I didn't see anything in his comment about the latest and greatest or "best tech".
- spiralpolitik 11y ago
  Like in any industry there are good teams and bad teams. Working in finance verses working in say social does not automatically make you a bad developer. Culturally there are two things make finance different. One is that it is a hideously conservative and risk adverse. AS/400's are used because they are well understood, very reliable, and supported by someone other than an attention deficit teenager in a bedroom. Second is that mainstream finance doesn't see itself as a technology industry. There are areas like quant investment and high frequency trading that are, but most finance companies still look at technology as a line item on the budget rather than the foundation that their business is based on. This is changing slowly (see one) but will mostly likely require an external disruption to push change through any quicker.
  - SEJeff 11y ago
    Entirely agreed on all points. I work in hft and only am in this industry due to the fantastic bleeding edge tech.

uxcn 11y ago

I have seen systems that ran on hardware as old as DEC VAXs as late as 2008, but I'm not sure the reason behind not transitioning was risk aversion. Regardless, there aren't formal controls in place. Otherwise issues like Knight Capital [1] wouldn't have happened. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knight_Capital_Group#2012_stock_trading_disruption https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knight_Capital_Group#2012_stoc...