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Never lived in American suburbia, so I never though ot this: the cul-de-sacs are made so that a bike or even a pedestrian can not get through? Over here (Finla

Never lived in American suburbia, so I never though ot this: the cul-de-sacs are made so that a bike or even a pedestrian can not get through? Over here (Finland), it is very common that a road is cul-de-sac for motor vehicles but you can get through riding bike or on foot. There is also a common traffic sign to indicate this, for instance here in my neighbourhood: https://www.google.fi/maps/@60.2285087,24.7129127,3a,15y,347.11h,85.22t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sO15h7X1havql9rQEagZJuw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=fi https://www.google.fi/maps/@60.2285087,24.7129127,3a,15y,347... The top sign indicates "no parking zone", i.e. you cannot park at curb unless it is marked as a parking space. The next sign is 30 km/h area (maximum speed limit in the area, no need to put a separate speed limit sign on each street) The bottom one indicates that the road splits to cul-de-sacs for motor vehicles on left and right, but you can get through by bike. (Here it is misleading, you can get through also to the left, not just to the right).

jessaustin 11y ago
Over here (Finland), it is very common that a road is cul-de-sac for motor vehicles but you can get through riding bike or on foot. This is common in USA if the cul-de-sac is a retrofit to a previously-through road. (If not by design, then in the breach, because someone has knocked a hole in the fence and it hasn't been fixed.) However, in the sorts of housing-only developments that have culs-de-sac designed in, the typical cul-de-sac is completely surrounded by houses with yards backed by other houses with yards, so there's nowhere to go. Personally, I've never lived in such an environment, and when I've visited those who do it has driven me to distraction. You can't get anywhere directly! My impression is that this sort of development design is growing less popular, although maybe it's just that I more rarely visit people who live in such places.
- ptaipale 11y ago
  Right, so the point is that property owners do not want to have anyone walk by on foot, because they fear they could be trespassers or loiterers that are not welcome in the area? And this is why a cul-de-sac stops not only cars but everything, with a fence. But then that also stops e.g. children from moving about on their own in the neighbourhood.
  - jessaustin 11y ago
    It's kind of ironic, but regular foot traffic is a bigger deterrent to crime than isolation. After all, no one is home all the time.
analog31 11y ago
Yes. A lot of newer neighborhoods are not laid out on a grid, but are designed with lots of winding streets an cul-de-sacs. Maybe it seems more pleasant that way, and it forces through traffic out onto the main roads, but does the same to bikes. Cyclists really benefit from a "network" of alternative routes that have low traffic, and what you describe in Finland is a great idea.

jessaustin 11y ago

Over here (Finland), it is very common that a road is cul-de-sac for motor vehicles but you can get through riding bike or on foot. This is common in USA if the cul-de-sac is a retrofit to a previously-through road. (If not by design, then in the breach, because someone has knocked a hole in the fence and it hasn't been fixed.) However, in the sorts of housing-only developments that have culs-de-sac designed in, the typical cul-de-sac is completely surrounded by houses with yards backed by other houses with yards, so there's nowhere to go. Personally, I've never lived in such an environment, and when I've visited those who do it has driven me to distraction. You can't get anywhere directly! My impression is that this sort of development design is growing less popular, although maybe it's just that I more rarely visit people who live in such places.

ptaipale 11y ago
Right, so the point is that property owners do not want to have anyone walk by on foot, because they fear they could be trespassers or loiterers that are not welcome in the area? And this is why a cul-de-sac stops not only cars but everything, with a fence. But then that also stops e.g. children from moving about on their own in the neighbourhood.
- jessaustin 11y ago
  It's kind of ironic, but regular foot traffic is a bigger deterrent to crime than isolation. After all, no one is home all the time.

analog31 11y ago

Yes. A lot of newer neighborhoods are not laid out on a grid, but are designed with lots of winding streets an cul-de-sacs. Maybe it seems more pleasant that way, and it forces through traffic out onto the main roads, but does the same to bikes. Cyclists really benefit from a "network" of alternative routes that have low traffic, and what you describe in Finland is a great idea.