4 ms·

Ellen Pao’s Gender-Bias Odyssey Ends as Kleiner Drops Judgment $276k Legal Fees

41 points by irl_zebra 11y ago

tdylan 11y ago
Proud that the jury followed the evidence, and not the knee jerk mob justice.
buhrmi 11y ago
back to normality.
soneca 11y ago
I couldn't understand the english. Can someone explain in plkain english please? My understanding: the firm paid Pao's lawyer bill and she droped her case. She did not take any more money to keep her freedom to speak publicly about the issue. Is that right?
- probdist 11y ago
  No. Pao lost. 1) Pao lost the case and as a result was found to owe (part) of KP's legal bills. 2) KP has filled something with the court indicating that they don't need enforcement of that any more. Indicating either Pao paid them, or they came to an agreement to not get paid in full in exchange for Pao not appealing or related things like agreeing to not discuss them further publicly. All the court filings really indicate is that KP considers the matter closed.
  - soneca 11y ago
    Thanks, i got confused with the direction that the term "awarded" implied.
alansmitheebk 11y ago
I give it about five minutes before The Guardian publishes an editorial entitled: "Ellen Pao lawsuit ends but will not slow fight for gender equality in Silicon Valley."
- exstudent2 11y ago
  Amusing but sadly apt. The most interesting aspect of this case was the extreme difference between how it was reported and what the jury found to be factual. It went so far that the NYT ended up editing stories after they were posted and admitting to changing their strategy to no longer report "just the facts": http://newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/clay-waters/2015/07/19/ny-times-public-editor-admits-paper-has-moved-away-just-facts http://newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/clay-waters/2015/07/19/ny-ti... So many outlets uniformly reported that Pao WAS the victim of gender discrimination and she WAS on a crusade to represent women in tech. Not an exaggeration, those thing were actually being said. I have yet to see any of the outlets that reported this angle backtrack, even after the verdict came out against Pao.
  - gnoway 11y ago
    NB: the linked article concerns reporting about Pao's ouster from Reddit, not her court case.
- steve19 11y ago
  The Guardian is doing very well. Thier articles/journalists have a left world view and do not pretend they are neutral. I don't agree with a lot of their editorial opinions, but I can respect their strategy. It is refreshing compared to the NYT and other media organizations that pretend they are unbiased/neutral, while promoting some sort of specific world view.
  - alansmitheebk 11y ago
    Their news coverage is pretty decent. I read it daily. But their opinion pieces are laughably stupid. Just this past summer they did a piece about how air conditioning is sexist. Every day Jessica Valenti writes something about the Pro Life movement and calls it the "Anti Choice" movement, which is a like Fox News calling banksters "Job Creators." Syreeta what's her face did a piece the other day about how film stock is racist (she apparently doesn't know how to set her camera aperture properly and blames it on film not being designed to capture black faces). It's a fucking joke.
xacaxulu 11y ago
Pleasantly surprised that this bit of frivolity didn't swing towards the direction the PC mob would have liked.
trose 11y ago
I'm mildly frustrated that this will be seen as a win by the MRA's. Yes, there was not sufficient evidence to back Pao's claims but anyone that has worked in an office environment with women present can attest to the fact that women still are not in equal standing with their male peers. There is a lot of work to be done in our society. I would love to live in a world where gender becomes insignificant to the point that it isn't discussed.
- exstudent2 11y ago
  > anyone that has worked in an office environment with women present can attest to the fact that women still are not in equal standing with their male peers. This is certainly not true. I've worked in many offices with women who were treated with respect, excelled at their role and were recognized as such. If you have problems in your workplace you should report them, not generalize them to everyone's workplace.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- redthrowaway 11y ago
  Ellen Pao is not the figurehead any movement should rally behind. Between this and her husband's fraud, people who actually care about gender equality shouldn't have touched the case with a ten-foot pole. It was fishy business from the outset. If MRAs see it as a victory, that's because their opponents made such a big deal out of this case. A little bit of foresight on their part would have made it a non-issue.
- jack-r-abbit 11y ago
  Regardless of how many of one group of people are mistreated, it is not a given that anyone from that group that claims mistreatment is being truthful. Sometimes people who seek attention will pick an issue that many think is beyond reproach because they know they will have a guaranteed support group. People get raped everyday and it is not very PC to question the validity of such a claim. Yet people have been found to make false rape claims. People get discriminated against everyday and it is not very PC to question it. But people have been found to fabricate (or exaggerate) stories. Usually when people come out and start to question a claim, they just get lumped into the "haters" group. They are labeled as "part of the problem." But often those questioning are the only ones that actually care about the truth.

41 points by irl_zebra 11y ago

tdylan 11y ago

Proud that the jury followed the evidence, and not the knee jerk mob justice.

buhrmi 11y ago

back to normality.

soneca 11y ago

I couldn't understand the english. Can someone explain in plkain english please? My understanding: the firm paid Pao's lawyer bill and she droped her case. She did not take any more money to keep her freedom to speak publicly about the issue. Is that right?

probdist 11y ago
No. Pao lost. 1) Pao lost the case and as a result was found to owe (part) of KP's legal bills. 2) KP has filled something with the court indicating that they don't need enforcement of that any more. Indicating either Pao paid them, or they came to an agreement to not get paid in full in exchange for Pao not appealing or related things like agreeing to not discuss them further publicly. All the court filings really indicate is that KP considers the matter closed.
- soneca 11y ago
  Thanks, i got confused with the direction that the term "awarded" implied.

alansmitheebk 11y ago

I give it about five minutes before The Guardian publishes an editorial entitled: "Ellen Pao lawsuit ends but will not slow fight for gender equality in Silicon Valley."

exstudent2 11y ago
Amusing but sadly apt. The most interesting aspect of this case was the extreme difference between how it was reported and what the jury found to be factual. It went so far that the NYT ended up editing stories after they were posted and admitting to changing their strategy to no longer report "just the facts": http://newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/clay-waters/2015/07/19/ny-times-public-editor-admits-paper-has-moved-away-just-facts http://newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/clay-waters/2015/07/19/ny-ti... So many outlets uniformly reported that Pao WAS the victim of gender discrimination and she WAS on a crusade to represent women in tech. Not an exaggeration, those thing were actually being said. I have yet to see any of the outlets that reported this angle backtrack, even after the verdict came out against Pao.
- gnoway 11y ago
  NB: the linked article concerns reporting about Pao's ouster from Reddit, not her court case.
steve19 11y ago
The Guardian is doing very well. Thier articles/journalists have a left world view and do not pretend they are neutral. I don't agree with a lot of their editorial opinions, but I can respect their strategy. It is refreshing compared to the NYT and other media organizations that pretend they are unbiased/neutral, while promoting some sort of specific world view.
- alansmitheebk 11y ago
  Their news coverage is pretty decent. I read it daily. But their opinion pieces are laughably stupid. Just this past summer they did a piece about how air conditioning is sexist. Every day Jessica Valenti writes something about the Pro Life movement and calls it the "Anti Choice" movement, which is a like Fox News calling banksters "Job Creators." Syreeta what's her face did a piece the other day about how film stock is racist (she apparently doesn't know how to set her camera aperture properly and blames it on film not being designed to capture black faces). It's a fucking joke.

xacaxulu 11y ago

Pleasantly surprised that this bit of frivolity didn't swing towards the direction the PC mob would have liked.

trose 11y ago

I'm mildly frustrated that this will be seen as a win by the MRA's. Yes, there was not sufficient evidence to back Pao's claims but anyone that has worked in an office environment with women present can attest to the fact that women still are not in equal standing with their male peers. There is a lot of work to be done in our society. I would love to live in a world where gender becomes insignificant to the point that it isn't discussed.

exstudent2 11y ago
> anyone that has worked in an office environment with women present can attest to the fact that women still are not in equal standing with their male peers. This is certainly not true. I've worked in many offices with women who were treated with respect, excelled at their role and were recognized as such. If you have problems in your workplace you should report them, not generalize them to everyone's workplace.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
redthrowaway 11y ago
Ellen Pao is not the figurehead any movement should rally behind. Between this and her husband's fraud, people who actually care about gender equality shouldn't have touched the case with a ten-foot pole. It was fishy business from the outset. If MRAs see it as a victory, that's because their opponents made such a big deal out of this case. A little bit of foresight on their part would have made it a non-issue.
jack-r-abbit 11y ago
Regardless of how many of one group of people are mistreated, it is not a given that anyone from that group that claims mistreatment is being truthful. Sometimes people who seek attention will pick an issue that many think is beyond reproach because they know they will have a guaranteed support group. People get raped everyday and it is not very PC to question the validity of such a claim. Yet people have been found to make false rape claims. People get discriminated against everyday and it is not very PC to question it. But people have been found to fabricate (or exaggerate) stories. Usually when people come out and start to question a claim, they just get lumped into the "haters" group. They are labeled as "part of the problem." But often those questioning are the only ones that actually care about the truth.