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In July, France 2 (the #1 public national television channel in France) released a documentary [0] that showed to which extent the French auto manufacturer PSA

In July, France 2 (the #1 public national television channel in France) released a documentary [0] that showed to which extent the French auto manufacturer PSA lied about NO2 emissions. At 1h19s [1], Pierre Macaudière, head of emission control systems at PSA, admits that the model tested emits 1700 ppm of NO2, after measuring 200 ppm (the legal limit) with their own machines. At 1h17m11s [2], the researchers commissioned by the EU shows the journalist that not one manufacturer respects the legal limits of 200 ppm. He's frightened to tell the journalist that it's all just a widespread fraud. * [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JFprj6v37Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JFprj6v37Q * [1] https://youtu.be/5JFprj6v37Q?t=1h19s https://youtu.be/5JFprj6v37Q?t=1h19s * [2] https://youtu.be/5JFprj6v37Q?t=1h17m11s https://youtu.be/5JFprj6v37Q?t=1h17m11s

differentView 11y ago
If that's true, then there's no way government officials weren't bribed and need to be prosecuted.
- kuschku 11y ago
  Which is kinda expected, considering the government is the second largest shareholder in VW.
- ekianjo 11y ago
  Which calls for decentralized inspection, instead of relying again and again on governments to do the right thing. The only thing they are good at is accepting bribes.
  - anigbrowl 11y ago
    Kind of throwing the baby out with the bathwater there, no? I was in and out of publicly-run hospitals as a child, I wouldn't be alive today if not for socialized medicine.
    - duncan_bayne 11y ago
      That's incorrect. You wouldn't be alive today without medicine; the fact that it was provided by a socialized system is almost certainly irrelevant. There exist other, better and fairer mechanisms to provide healthcare, especially to those in genuine need. Edited: to put it another way, imagine if you lived in a country with socialized car mechanics. You could easily make the claim that the only thing keeping you on the road was your good comrades at State Autoworks ...
      - kefka 11y ago
        That's right, the capitalist-libertarian answer is always "Fuck you, pay me", or in this case, "fuck you, die". We have insurance. Its a great way to leverage the group so that all get a low rate. That given, "socialized" medicine is a group policy population wide: which should give the lowest rates split equally between all. Certainly makes the most sense.
        duncan_bayne 11y ago
        I'm tempted not to reply to such an obvious straw man argument, but: take a look at the way mutual societies worked prior to socialised medicine. That's the sort of approach people opposed to socialized medicine would prefer. It provides cheap health care and looks after those incapable of doing so themselves, all without coercion.
        kefka 11y ago
        I know a good deal about the Middle Ages, being part of the SCA. And indeed, it did work pretty well. The problem is now is that it's not just 1 or 2 people involved with health of the area. It's the doctor, the 2 nurses, the 2 receptionists, the x-ray techs, the lab techs, the pharmacist, the pharmacist techs; all for a call to the doctor. In hospitals, it's so crazy how billing works, that most hospitals do not actually know how much X costs. instead, they just bill exorbitantly to anyone without insurance, and insurance gives them the agreed upon price. Drug companies are also really messed up: the US ends up subsidizing the rest of the world's drugs, all the while biasing on maintenance based drugs over cures. The FDA also has its fair share to blame. They control which universities are accredited, and directly control the flow of doctors purely on the say-so from the AMA, a doctor union. Considering the complicated nature, insurance covering the nation, aka socialized care, makes the most sense. Tearing down systems like I said above really isn't sustainable.
  - molmalo 11y ago
    And who should do it? Universities and NGOs are commonly bribed as well..
  - GFK_of_xmaspast 11y ago
    You mean like private companies inspecting individual cars on a periodic basis as a requirement for that car being street-legal?
- rtpg 11y ago
  never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by incompetence... I work at the French auto Inspection facility. I'm not keeping up with research done by some people in Brussels because I'm busy living my life. A car rolls in, I check for defeat devices of the kind previously found. Because the organization is reactive, not proactive, I don't find any newer kind of defeat device (also, I'm not Sherlock Holmes). Car gets approved.
  - jeromeflipo 11y ago
    The lack of time and/or resources to enforce these limits: a bug or a feature? Certainly a sin of omission.
- matt4077 11y ago
  This is frequently not bribery. There are a few other mechanisms. One of them is regulatory capture. The other is what I'd call the 'boiling frog'-effect, where, if everyone is doing it and it has been going on since before you got into the business, your moral compass readjusts and you tolerate more wrongdoing than you should.
kuschku 11y ago
This needs to be far higher.
elektromekatron 11y ago
Just for Volkswagen - 11m vehicles. Average price of new car is around $35,000 So, for this recall, we are talking a list price of over 350 billion dollars. And that is just from what we know of VW.
- tdicola 11y ago
  They're not taking the cars back and destroying them. They'll send letters to all the owners telling them to come in to a VW dealer for some warranty service. A tech will flash the ECU and they'll be back out on the road in a minutes. It will definitely be costly but not $350B.
  - jevgeni 11y ago
    VW set aside 6.5 billion EUR provisions for the recall. http://www.cnbc.com/2015/09/22/vw-scandal-germanys-reputation-on-the-line.html http://www.cnbc.com/2015/09/22/vw-scandal-germanys-reputatio...
  - astannard 11y ago
    Will that leave the car with less horse power or reduced fuel consumption? If so more lawsuits around the corner
mey 11y ago
Are there closed captions or transcripts available? Edit: In English?
seren 11y ago
You should submit your findings to some independent media like mediapart or ASI. Edit: it is already circulating in some media, but has not been pick up by other yet.
jeromeflipo 11y ago
NB: France 2 will broadcast it again on Monday 28, 23:05 Paris Time.

differentView 11y ago

If that's true, then there's no way government officials weren't bribed and need to be prosecuted.

kuschku 11y ago
Which is kinda expected, considering the government is the second largest shareholder in VW.
ekianjo 11y ago
Which calls for decentralized inspection, instead of relying again and again on governments to do the right thing. The only thing they are good at is accepting bribes.
- anigbrowl 11y ago
  Kind of throwing the baby out with the bathwater there, no? I was in and out of publicly-run hospitals as a child, I wouldn't be alive today if not for socialized medicine.
  - duncan_bayne 11y ago
    That's incorrect. You wouldn't be alive today without medicine; the fact that it was provided by a socialized system is almost certainly irrelevant. There exist other, better and fairer mechanisms to provide healthcare, especially to those in genuine need. Edited: to put it another way, imagine if you lived in a country with socialized car mechanics. You could easily make the claim that the only thing keeping you on the road was your good comrades at State Autoworks ...
    - kefka 11y ago
      That's right, the capitalist-libertarian answer is always "Fuck you, pay me", or in this case, "fuck you, die". We have insurance. Its a great way to leverage the group so that all get a low rate. That given, "socialized" medicine is a group policy population wide: which should give the lowest rates split equally between all. Certainly makes the most sense.
      - duncan_bayne 11y ago
        I'm tempted not to reply to such an obvious straw man argument, but: take a look at the way mutual societies worked prior to socialised medicine. That's the sort of approach people opposed to socialized medicine would prefer. It provides cheap health care and looks after those incapable of doing so themselves, all without coercion.
        kefka 11y ago
        I know a good deal about the Middle Ages, being part of the SCA. And indeed, it did work pretty well. The problem is now is that it's not just 1 or 2 people involved with health of the area. It's the doctor, the 2 nurses, the 2 receptionists, the x-ray techs, the lab techs, the pharmacist, the pharmacist techs; all for a call to the doctor. In hospitals, it's so crazy how billing works, that most hospitals do not actually know how much X costs. instead, they just bill exorbitantly to anyone without insurance, and insurance gives them the agreed upon price. Drug companies are also really messed up: the US ends up subsidizing the rest of the world's drugs, all the while biasing on maintenance based drugs over cures. The FDA also has its fair share to blame. They control which universities are accredited, and directly control the flow of doctors purely on the say-so from the AMA, a doctor union. Considering the complicated nature, insurance covering the nation, aka socialized care, makes the most sense. Tearing down systems like I said above really isn't sustainable.
- molmalo 11y ago
  And who should do it? Universities and NGOs are commonly bribed as well..
- GFK_of_xmaspast 11y ago
  You mean like private companies inspecting individual cars on a periodic basis as a requirement for that car being street-legal?
rtpg 11y ago
never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by incompetence... I work at the French auto Inspection facility. I'm not keeping up with research done by some people in Brussels because I'm busy living my life. A car rolls in, I check for defeat devices of the kind previously found. Because the organization is reactive, not proactive, I don't find any newer kind of defeat device (also, I'm not Sherlock Holmes). Car gets approved.
- jeromeflipo 11y ago
  The lack of time and/or resources to enforce these limits: a bug or a feature? Certainly a sin of omission.
matt4077 11y ago
This is frequently not bribery. There are a few other mechanisms. One of them is regulatory capture. The other is what I'd call the 'boiling frog'-effect, where, if everyone is doing it and it has been going on since before you got into the business, your moral compass readjusts and you tolerate more wrongdoing than you should.

kuschku 11y ago

This needs to be far higher.

elektromekatron 11y ago

Just for Volkswagen - 11m vehicles. Average price of new car is around $35,000 So, for this recall, we are talking a list price of over 350 billion dollars. And that is just from what we know of VW.

tdicola 11y ago
They're not taking the cars back and destroying them. They'll send letters to all the owners telling them to come in to a VW dealer for some warranty service. A tech will flash the ECU and they'll be back out on the road in a minutes. It will definitely be costly but not $350B.
- jevgeni 11y ago
  VW set aside 6.5 billion EUR provisions for the recall. http://www.cnbc.com/2015/09/22/vw-scandal-germanys-reputation-on-the-line.html http://www.cnbc.com/2015/09/22/vw-scandal-germanys-reputatio...
- astannard 11y ago
  Will that leave the car with less horse power or reduced fuel consumption? If so more lawsuits around the corner

mey 11y ago

Are there closed captions or transcripts available? Edit: In English?

seren 11y ago

You should submit your findings to some independent media like mediapart or ASI. Edit: it is already circulating in some media, but has not been pick up by other yet.

jeromeflipo 11y ago

NB: France 2 will broadcast it again on Monday 28, 23:05 Paris Time.