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That is not all. In Germany there are rumors going around, that not alone VW did cheat at those emission tests and not only at those tests. And the rumors are

That is not all. In Germany there are rumors going around, that not alone VW did cheat at those emission tests and not only at those tests. And the rumors are around for a long time now. It is a well known fact, that in the EU, the emission tests used in the EU are absolute ridiculous (not only the NOX-tests -- all of them). They are totally artificial, so that they have nothing to do with normal car usage. But they are still used. The reason is, that particularly the German government are blocking all initiatives to change them. This does suggest, that they know about the cheating or at least where influenced from the big car industry. The German car industry is very influential in Germany. Also it is a well known fact, that the gap between the official fuel usage figures and the fuel usage experienced in real world situation is growing and growing for many (maybe most) car brands. I would say, this is the same thing, because those numbers are determined by tests operated by the manufacturers -- and they are also artificial test situations like the emission tests. Officially, the fuel usage of new cars was reduced very much, but some say, that the real numbers have maybe even growing instead. All this is known for years, if not decades. Because of the the German government, the EU still takes a blind eye on this.

mzs 11y ago
Yes you see this already for long time in forced induction cars. If you drive like in the cycle you will get good fuel economy, but it you drive like regular people and for example the turbo spools, fuel economy suffers at the expense of performance. What is particularly egregious here is that NOx levels were gamed to 10-40x, not fuel economy (and directly CO2) to something like just 5-10%. In my personal view it is not German government directly so much as for the tax incentives to keep the unrealistic cycles in place (which then the gov gets involved partly for votes and partly for large industry to be able to still easliy sell more reasonably priced cars).
- PythonicAlpha 11y ago
  As much I read, the difference between "standard cycle" and realistic driving is currently at 30-40%. And I guess, there is no realistic way, may you be a good driver as ever possible, to reach these consumption levels. And I don't agree: The tax incentives are also made by the government and the taxes are of course based on the official (forged) numbers. Also when you argue the fuel tax will make it right: No, I don't agree, because the consumers can not decide -- they are also lied at with the wrong numbers!

mzs 11y ago

Yes you see this already for long time in forced induction cars. If you drive like in the cycle you will get good fuel economy, but it you drive like regular people and for example the turbo spools, fuel economy suffers at the expense of performance. What is particularly egregious here is that NOx levels were gamed to 10-40x, not fuel economy (and directly CO2) to something like just 5-10%. In my personal view it is not German government directly so much as for the tax incentives to keep the unrealistic cycles in place (which then the gov gets involved partly for votes and partly for large industry to be able to still easliy sell more reasonably priced cars).

PythonicAlpha 11y ago
As much I read, the difference between "standard cycle" and realistic driving is currently at 30-40%. And I guess, there is no realistic way, may you be a good driver as ever possible, to reach these consumption levels. And I don't agree: The tax incentives are also made by the government and the taxes are of course based on the official (forged) numbers. Also when you argue the fuel tax will make it right: No, I don't agree, because the consumers can not decide -- they are also lied at with the wrong numbers!