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>which turned out to be a load of crap when Windows 10 came out How did it turn out to be a load of crap? They changed the UI to cater to user preferences. Wha

>which turned out to be a load of crap when Windows 10 came out How did it turn out to be a load of crap? They changed the UI to cater to user preferences. What was missing for you?

buffoon 11y ago
The privacy changes, the license changes, the authentication changes, the cloud lock in, the general unreliability of it, the fucked up updates, the poor GPO support, the enterprise updates and LTS picture, the ad-supported default apps, the fudged upgrade process. I could go on all day about what a gigantic turd it is, but hey shiny shiny! On the subject of the UI, it does precisely nothing that anyone wants or asked for. People wanted a stable, reliable desktop operating system but the just marched forward with pushing "modern apps" which are all incoherent, buggy, slow, suffer major usability problems with both touch and mouse and are brow beating this into people at every available opportunity as the next best thing. So basically everything.
- WorldMaker 11y ago
  1) The license changes were directly from decades of user feedback: people don't buy upgrades to Windows, they buy machines with Windows on it. Microsoft listened and now Windows is licensed and updated perpetually to a given hardware configuration. 2) Windows still supports Local Accounts as well as it ever has, and with feedback it's now much more obvious how to create one if you don't want "cloud lock-in". With the latest build out to Insiders even Cortana allows you to use a Local Account and opt in sign in to a Microsoft account only for Cortana features. Certainly seems to me that Microsoft is listening and trying to balance the feedback of the paranoids like you and the people that appreciate the convenience of cloud features such as myself... 3) Giant Enterprise "Threshold 2" release is expected to drop November-ish with greater support for GPO, BYOD, LTS, and all the Enterprise appeasing buzzword acronyms that "admins" love and users live with and/or hate. Microsoft appears to be collecting a lot of feedback to work on to build this Enterprise push, including a lot of feedback from the few companies to actually try and use Windows 8 (as opposed to all the ones steadfastly "Windows XP or Death"/"LTS for Life"), which had a lot stronger Enterprise capabilities than people seem to have given it credit for... 4) The UI is doing a lot of things that people want and ask for: better handling different DPI across multiple screens, better handling touch, better handling DPI in general, increasing better access to good typography and design principles. Apple does it and gets applauded, Microsoft tries to do it and people call them tyrants and "brow beating". Here again, Microsoft is clearly doing everything they can do based on the feedback they are getting. So much so that they've even backpedaled on many of the things that once made "Modern Apps" truly "Modern" in terms of fresh, smarter approaches to common problems (I was a fan of the Charms bar and what it tried to accomplish, may it rest in peace; also, hamburger menus, sigh). Apple never had to deal with as much "who moved my cheese" hatred in the transition between Carbon and Cocoa as Microsoft seems to be working with here.
  - FireBeyond 11y ago
    "3) Giant Enterprise "Threshold 2" release is expected to drop November-ish with greater support for GPO, BYOD, LTS, and all the Enterprise appeasing buzzword acronyms that "admins" love and users live with and/or hate. Microsoft appears to be collecting a lot of feedback to work on to build this Enterprise push, including a lot of feedback from the few companies to actually try and use Windows 8 (as opposed to all the ones steadfastly "Windows XP or Death"/"LTS for Life"), which had a lot stronger Enterprise capabilities than people seem to have given it credit for..." Right. And let's face it, what fraction of 1% of enterprises are doing anything other than proof-of-concept for Windows 10 at this point anyway??
    - WorldMaker 11y ago
      Yeah, Windows 7 is the new Windows XP for the "LTS for Lifers" and there will be plenty of enterprises similarly riding that horse long after it is exhausted. It's interesting too the people complaining about the Windows 10 approach to LTS shortening the decade-plus-long window of abuse that XP suffered (and 7 is likely to also see) to something more akin to the 5 years of Debian LTS... and Debian is considered one of the most conservative of the Linux distributions with respect to LTS!
AlexandrB 11y ago
In my opinion the UI of Windows 10 worse than either Windows 7 or 8. While Windows 8 was like running a modal OS - one mode for desktop, another for tablet - Windows 10 doubles down by awkwardly gluing these interaction modes together and making both worse for it. That's not to mention the overall sloppiness of some aspects of Windows 10 like mismatched icons/windows/settings, etc. I was not a fan of Windows 8, but Windows 10 is worse! I'm not sure which users they were catering to in this regard.
- redxdev 11y ago
  In my opinion, the Windows 10 UI is a bit nicer than Windows 8. There will always be conflicting opinions about UI changes. As for the tablet/desktop UI... Win10 is leagues ahead of Windows 8. All of Microsoft's apps work better with a mouse and keyboard, and the tablet mode does still exist if you're using a device that would benefit from it. The only meaningful change is that you now have to press a button to switch from normal, resizable windows to fullscreen tablet mode.

>which turned out to be a load of crap when Windows 10 came out How did it turn out to be a load of crap? They changed the UI to cater to user preferences. What was missing for you?

buffoon 11y ago

The privacy changes, the license changes, the authentication changes, the cloud lock in, the general unreliability of it, the fucked up updates, the poor GPO support, the enterprise updates and LTS picture, the ad-supported default apps, the fudged upgrade process. I could go on all day about what a gigantic turd it is, but hey shiny shiny! On the subject of the UI, it does precisely nothing that anyone wants or asked for. People wanted a stable, reliable desktop operating system but the just marched forward with pushing "modern apps" which are all incoherent, buggy, slow, suffer major usability problems with both touch and mouse and are brow beating this into people at every available opportunity as the next best thing. So basically everything.

WorldMaker 11y ago
1) The license changes were directly from decades of user feedback: people don't buy upgrades to Windows, they buy machines with Windows on it. Microsoft listened and now Windows is licensed and updated perpetually to a given hardware configuration. 2) Windows still supports Local Accounts as well as it ever has, and with feedback it's now much more obvious how to create one if you don't want "cloud lock-in". With the latest build out to Insiders even Cortana allows you to use a Local Account and opt in sign in to a Microsoft account only for Cortana features. Certainly seems to me that Microsoft is listening and trying to balance the feedback of the paranoids like you and the people that appreciate the convenience of cloud features such as myself... 3) Giant Enterprise "Threshold 2" release is expected to drop November-ish with greater support for GPO, BYOD, LTS, and all the Enterprise appeasing buzzword acronyms that "admins" love and users live with and/or hate. Microsoft appears to be collecting a lot of feedback to work on to build this Enterprise push, including a lot of feedback from the few companies to actually try and use Windows 8 (as opposed to all the ones steadfastly "Windows XP or Death"/"LTS for Life"), which had a lot stronger Enterprise capabilities than people seem to have given it credit for... 4) The UI is doing a lot of things that people want and ask for: better handling different DPI across multiple screens, better handling touch, better handling DPI in general, increasing better access to good typography and design principles. Apple does it and gets applauded, Microsoft tries to do it and people call them tyrants and "brow beating". Here again, Microsoft is clearly doing everything they can do based on the feedback they are getting. So much so that they've even backpedaled on many of the things that once made "Modern Apps" truly "Modern" in terms of fresh, smarter approaches to common problems (I was a fan of the Charms bar and what it tried to accomplish, may it rest in peace; also, hamburger menus, sigh). Apple never had to deal with as much "who moved my cheese" hatred in the transition between Carbon and Cocoa as Microsoft seems to be working with here.
- FireBeyond 11y ago
  "3) Giant Enterprise "Threshold 2" release is expected to drop November-ish with greater support for GPO, BYOD, LTS, and all the Enterprise appeasing buzzword acronyms that "admins" love and users live with and/or hate. Microsoft appears to be collecting a lot of feedback to work on to build this Enterprise push, including a lot of feedback from the few companies to actually try and use Windows 8 (as opposed to all the ones steadfastly "Windows XP or Death"/"LTS for Life"), which had a lot stronger Enterprise capabilities than people seem to have given it credit for..." Right. And let's face it, what fraction of 1% of enterprises are doing anything other than proof-of-concept for Windows 10 at this point anyway??
  - WorldMaker 11y ago
    Yeah, Windows 7 is the new Windows XP for the "LTS for Lifers" and there will be plenty of enterprises similarly riding that horse long after it is exhausted. It's interesting too the people complaining about the Windows 10 approach to LTS shortening the decade-plus-long window of abuse that XP suffered (and 7 is likely to also see) to something more akin to the 5 years of Debian LTS... and Debian is considered one of the most conservative of the Linux distributions with respect to LTS!

AlexandrB 11y ago

In my opinion the UI of Windows 10 worse than either Windows 7 or 8. While Windows 8 was like running a modal OS - one mode for desktop, another for tablet - Windows 10 doubles down by awkwardly gluing these interaction modes together and making both worse for it. That's not to mention the overall sloppiness of some aspects of Windows 10 like mismatched icons/windows/settings, etc. I was not a fan of Windows 8, but Windows 10 is worse! I'm not sure which users they were catering to in this regard.

redxdev 11y ago
In my opinion, the Windows 10 UI is a bit nicer than Windows 8. There will always be conflicting opinions about UI changes. As for the tablet/desktop UI... Win10 is leagues ahead of Windows 8. All of Microsoft's apps work better with a mouse and keyboard, and the tablet mode does still exist if you're using a device that would benefit from it. The only meaningful change is that you now have to press a button to switch from normal, resizable windows to fullscreen tablet mode.