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Uh, considering that many major European parties explicitly identify as "socialists," I'm not sure it's the US that's confused. It's the US that is confused wi

Uh, considering that many major European parties explicitly identify as "socialists," I'm not sure it's the US that's confused. It's the US that is confused with the notion that socialism == communism.

VLM 11y ago
Its kind of like how countries with "Democratic" in the name usually aren't democracies. Or "Peoples" in the name usually means the general public are not even remotely in charge. Politically, names don't mean much.
- morgante 11y ago
  They do when everyone else agrees. They call themselves socialist, other people call them socialist, and their policies match most definitions of socialism. Tell me again why you think we shouldn't rightfully classify many European parties as socialist?
jessaustin 11y ago
Perhaps 'gjm11 is caught on Pinker's euphemism treadmill? If "socialist" is no longer a word we can use in polite company, how will we signify that political and economic arrangement?
- gjm11 11y ago
  I don't think I'm caught on the euphemism treadmill; I have no problem describing some systems and some people as socialist. (And, for the avoidance of doubt, I don't regard it as an insult to do so.) I just don't think it applies accurately to Scandinavian-style social democracy.
  - jessaustin 11y ago
    That's reasonable. If you wouldn't mind, you could help understanding by pointing to particular aspects of the Scandinavian style that disqualify the "socialist" classification. After all, there are some people on HN who unironically describe USA as "socialist".
gjm11 11y ago
(Apologies for the tardy reply.) Many European parties have things like "social democratic" in their name. They advocate social-democrat politics. Some European parties have "socialist" in their name. They mostly advocate socialist politics. The social democrats have typically had more electoral success than the socialists. That is why the nations of Europe frequently implement social democracy and less often implement socialism. So, e.g., none of the parties currently represented in the Swedish parliament has "socialist" in its name, but the largest is the "Swedish Social Democratic Party". (There is a "Left Party", which I think is an actually socialist party.) In Denmark there is a party called the "Social Democrats" which is, guess what?, a social democratic party; there is also a (much smaller) "Socialist People's Party" further to the left. I think that one is actually a leftier social democratic party, but then Denmark also has a centre-right party called "Left" :-). Norway's main social-democrat party is called the Labour Party, but they also have a "Socialist Left Party" which is actually socialist.

VLM 11y ago

Its kind of like how countries with "Democratic" in the name usually aren't democracies. Or "Peoples" in the name usually means the general public are not even remotely in charge. Politically, names don't mean much.

morgante 11y ago
They do when everyone else agrees. They call themselves socialist, other people call them socialist, and their policies match most definitions of socialism. Tell me again why you think we shouldn't rightfully classify many European parties as socialist?

jessaustin 11y ago

Perhaps 'gjm11 is caught on Pinker's euphemism treadmill? If "socialist" is no longer a word we can use in polite company, how will we signify that political and economic arrangement?

gjm11 11y ago
I don't think I'm caught on the euphemism treadmill; I have no problem describing some systems and some people as socialist. (And, for the avoidance of doubt, I don't regard it as an insult to do so.) I just don't think it applies accurately to Scandinavian-style social democracy.
- jessaustin 11y ago
  That's reasonable. If you wouldn't mind, you could help understanding by pointing to particular aspects of the Scandinavian style that disqualify the "socialist" classification. After all, there are some people on HN who unironically describe USA as "socialist".

gjm11 11y ago

(Apologies for the tardy reply.) Many European parties have things like "social democratic" in their name. They advocate social-democrat politics. Some European parties have "socialist" in their name. They mostly advocate socialist politics. The social democrats have typically had more electoral success than the socialists. That is why the nations of Europe frequently implement social democracy and less often implement socialism. So, e.g., none of the parties currently represented in the Swedish parliament has "socialist" in its name, but the largest is the "Swedish Social Democratic Party". (There is a "Left Party", which I think is an actually socialist party.) In Denmark there is a party called the "Social Democrats" which is, guess what?, a social democratic party; there is also a (much smaller) "Socialist People's Party" further to the left. I think that one is actually a leftier social democratic party, but then Denmark also has a centre-right party called "Left" :-). Norway's main social-democrat party is called the Labour Party, but they also have a "Socialist Left Party" which is actually socialist.