5 ms·

It's not just that, EU startups who currently depend on US-based services are going to be in quite a bit of trouble unless they got consent from their users to

by bbrazil 11y ago

It's not just that, EU startups who currently depend on US-based services are going to be in quite a bit of trouble unless they got consent from their users to put their data in the US.

kuschku 11y ago
Many people in Europe warned about this before. It's not like it was unannounced.
- harryf 11y ago
  They warned about cookie alerts as well but now we got "this site uses cookies" everywhere
  - distances 11y ago
    And the alerts are naturally extra annoying if you don't actually use cookies, since the acceptance status isn't saved and you'll see the warning again and again.
    - kuschku 11y ago
      And the law doesn’t even mandate popups like they are used – the law was intended to avoid sites using cookies for tracking. Not for personal settings.
mtgx 11y ago
As a user, that sounds pretty awesome. Of course in practice it will probably mean that they will throw this in the "privacy" policy, where they also enumerate all the ways in which they can track you and share your information. "By the way, we're also sending this data to US government-accessible servers. By reading or not reading this you hereby consent to us doing that. Oh - and did we mention how much we care about your privacy and security? We just wanted to make sure you got that." Hopefully the EU will also mandate some kind of real (but usable) consent mechanism to this sort of stuff, that's unlike the whole cookie story.
- tormeh 11y ago
  Yeah, "I hereby refuse to use any American social networks" is going to be a popular phrase among EU teenagers. The problem with EULAs is not just that we don't read them, it's also that in order to live a normal life you have to agree to all kinds of EULAs whether you want to or not. Consent is always given.
  - kefka 11y ago
    Consent isn't always consent. In medical industry, there is the idea of "informed consent", which attempts to make sure both parties are aware of the consent given. (Mainly in regards to treatments.)
- Oletros 11y ago
  EULA's, at least in Spain, are not contracts
  - tajen 11y ago
    An "agreement" is not a contract? How committing are EULAs then?
    - kuschku 11y ago
      EULAs are pretty powerless. You can’t write anything in there that wasn’t in the ad either. Otherwise it becomes invalid. As a German law professor phrased it "I never read the fine print. It's either fair or invalid"
- skrause 11y ago
  At least in Germany it's not possible to override laws by writing something different in a privacy policy or EULA. Even EULAs are mostly invalid. I guess it's the same in most European countries.
  - arethuza 11y ago
    Once something becomes a "consumer" contract then a lot of extra legal protections kick in (at least here in the UK) e.g. https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/protection-for-the-consumer/consumer-contracts/unfair-terms-in-consumer-contracts/ https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/protection-for-th...

by bbrazil 11y ago

It's not just that, EU startups who currently depend on US-based services are going to be in quite a bit of trouble unless they got consent from their users to put their data in the US.

kuschku 11y ago

Many people in Europe warned about this before. It's not like it was unannounced.

harryf 11y ago
They warned about cookie alerts as well but now we got "this site uses cookies" everywhere
- distances 11y ago
  And the alerts are naturally extra annoying if you don't actually use cookies, since the acceptance status isn't saved and you'll see the warning again and again.
  - kuschku 11y ago
    And the law doesn’t even mandate popups like they are used – the law was intended to avoid sites using cookies for tracking. Not for personal settings.

mtgx 11y ago

As a user, that sounds pretty awesome. Of course in practice it will probably mean that they will throw this in the "privacy" policy, where they also enumerate all the ways in which they can track you and share your information. "By the way, we're also sending this data to US government-accessible servers. By reading or not reading this you hereby consent to us doing that. Oh - and did we mention how much we care about your privacy and security? We just wanted to make sure you got that." Hopefully the EU will also mandate some kind of real (but usable) consent mechanism to this sort of stuff, that's unlike the whole cookie story.

tormeh 11y ago
Yeah, "I hereby refuse to use any American social networks" is going to be a popular phrase among EU teenagers. The problem with EULAs is not just that we don't read them, it's also that in order to live a normal life you have to agree to all kinds of EULAs whether you want to or not. Consent is always given.
- kefka 11y ago
  Consent isn't always consent. In medical industry, there is the idea of "informed consent", which attempts to make sure both parties are aware of the consent given. (Mainly in regards to treatments.)
Oletros 11y ago
EULA's, at least in Spain, are not contracts
- tajen 11y ago
  An "agreement" is not a contract? How committing are EULAs then?
  - kuschku 11y ago
    EULAs are pretty powerless. You can’t write anything in there that wasn’t in the ad either. Otherwise it becomes invalid. As a German law professor phrased it "I never read the fine print. It's either fair or invalid"
skrause 11y ago
At least in Germany it's not possible to override laws by writing something different in a privacy policy or EULA. Even EULAs are mostly invalid. I guess it's the same in most European countries.
- arethuza 11y ago
  Once something becomes a "consumer" contract then a lot of extra legal protections kick in (at least here in the UK) e.g. https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/protection-for-the-consumer/consumer-contracts/unfair-terms-in-consumer-contracts/ https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/protection-for-th...