4 ms·

The only thing I dislike about this is the short timeframe of interviewing on Friday, and having to work that immediate weekend on the problem. I'm a busy guy,

The only thing I dislike about this is the short timeframe of interviewing on Friday, and having to work that immediate weekend on the problem. I'm a busy guy, I have kids, and I like spending time with them (on top of the 2 hours I try to get in every day). That removes the weekend daytime. Weekend evenings - well, realistically once everyone's fed, bathed, and had a bedtime story, we're talking 7:30-8pm in my household - are then for eating, spending some time with my wife (shocking, I know!), taking care of household tasks, and then going to bed, ready for the inevitable 6am kiddie wake-up call. Yup, weekends are by far the busiest time of the week, and that's even when everything goes right! Give me a week, interview on Friday, deliver code/presentation by the following Friday, then I'm absolutely game for it, will get it done, and will get it done well. That said: I guess this may be a deliberate filter against people like me. Always difficult to know.

cperciva 11y ago
The only thing I dislike about this is the short timeframe of interviewing on Friday, and having to work that immediate weekend on the problem. Agreed. Another issue with the timeframe described: When is the current team expected to have a chance to look at the candidate's solution prior to the presentation? Stretch the timeline out a bit and everything becomes a lot easier.
junke 11y ago
Exactly, apparently everyone involved in the process is expected to work on weekends too: > make sure to be available for their questions via email over the weekend > A key aspect of this is that everyone in the group MUST come prepared, having looked through the solution.
- pc86 11y ago
  However it's easily tweaked for employers who want to do some flavor of this but actually respect their employees: > Have the candidate make assumptions and document their reasoning (risks invalidating the final product but that's a slim chance) > Meet late Monday or later that week One point I haven't seen mentioned here: If I'm currently employed and interviewing, I am not going to take two days of vacation just so that I can interview with you, work on something for you over my weekend, then interview with you again.
  - junke 11y ago
    Well, context is everything. In principle, I do not want to be expected to work overtime, and it starts at the interview. Also, I am not against taking a day of vacation for interviews (but this is maybe cultural). But if the job is really interesting, I can adapt. And I appreciate the fact that if am asked to work during a week-end, the person interviewing me offers to be reachable too.
BinaryIdiot 11y ago
I also completely agree; this article provides a really good idea to weeding out candidates but weekends are a no go (especially if they don't give you any type of warning ahead of time; at least if there is warning things can be moved around and scheduled). A week is a good amount of time. Since they have to articulate their work when they return it's not like they can cheat; they're going to have to understand it well enough to talk about it and discuss the pros and cons of their design.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
dagw 11y ago
The only thing I dislike about this is the short timeframe of interviewing on Friday, and having to work that immediate weekend on the problem. I suspect that that might be a secret feature. If you cannot work that weekend due to other, more important plans, then that is a strong indicator that you might not be able to work other weekends in the future.
- johnchristopher 11y ago
  Then it should be clear in the recruitment process that working on weekends is non-negotiable so people who can't won't apply for the position. That shouldn't be a secret feature, they are wasting their own time and resources by hiding it to applicants.
  - blazespin 11y ago
    Oh I dunno, maybe if you ace the interview they may skip that. Certain senior engineers who are in huge demand don't need to do such things. They have folks lining up to hire them without asking them to do programming assignments. I doubt the filter is used 100% of the time.
- mironathetin 11y ago
  "I suspect that that might be a secret feature." Yes, agreed. It may also test, if you are really serious with your application. If you are, there will be a way to free some time. This goes both ways: companies blow time to interview candidates, who just want to see how far they get. Or who plan to negotiate better terms with their current employer (happened to us recently, we paid flight, hotel, lost 3 months and a whole application round). Candidates blow their time by implementing stuff for companies, who just want cheap code or who want the best solution for a problem they cannot solve, or simply re-decide their plans after you invested your time for the coding. Both sides should find out how serious the others are. Payment for code is a good step. But if you pay, you can also ask for something, right?
  - dagw 11y ago
    s/serious/desperate/
troels 11y ago
One benefit of making the timeframe short, is that the candidate isn't pressured into spending way too much time on it. You may say that they should only spend 2 hours, but in reality, someone who wants to make a good impression is going to spend far more. That said, I agree that weekends might not be the best for all candidates. Maybe tailor it to the individual case (E.g. ask them beforehand if weekends work, or they'd rather do it during the week)
- robalfonso 11y ago
  We usually have a take home quiz/test, it usually takes one hour or so to complete, and gives us a shot at seeing how one approaches certain problems. I once had a guy that built a whole web based suite that acted like a tour, took us through each problem and then ran the code and spit out the result and also showed the code running in the test in a syntax highlighted view. WAY over the top and took way longer then an hour, we hired him though :)
davedx 11y ago
I agree. Just had this come up with an interview I did yesterday. We agreed that a week for a ~6 hr assignment was reasonable. I explicitly noted that I have a family so they were aware I couldn't spend more than a couple of hours/night coding :)
fmavituna 11y ago
If we assume you actually want to work for this company (because culture, what they do etc.) then is it too much to risk one of your weekends? Do you think it's not worth the risk? If it's not worth the risk do you think it's a good hire for that company? Because in that case you clearly don't care much about the company and will jump the ship when next slightly better opportunity arrives. Possibly I'm assuming too much and don't mean this to be personal but I'm really curious, is this the case or am I missing something? Personally I feel about $100-200 fee as well, if the candidate is looking for compensation to build something fictional in 2 hours, is that candidate really care about your company, and is it a good idea to hire people who joins to your company just because you happen to be paying decent salary and they don't have a better option at the moment?
- fringedgentian 11y ago
  > Personally I feel about $100-200 fee as well, if the candidate is looking for compensation to build something fictional in 2 hours, is that candidate really care about your company, and is it a good idea to hire people who joins to your company just because you happen to be paying decent salary and they don't have a better option at the moment? The money is more of a token to show that the company values the candidate's time and is not having them complete this coding challenge lightly.
  - fmavituna 11y ago
    > The money is more of a token to show that the company values the candidate's time and is not having them complete this coding challenge lightly. That's my point. If a candidate takes it lightly because you didn't pay some dollars, does she care enough? If not, is she still a good hire? Do you want to hire someone who doesn't care about the job or the company enough to even fail to provide full effort on their first assignment?
    - lwelyk 11y ago
      Why should an employee care a lot about a /potential/ job, especially if everyone they're talking to is doing the same thing?
Shivetya 11y ago
to be honest, an potential employer who expects this isn't one I would recommend to anyone. If they expect you to put them before family they are not worth working for. Seen it too many times, once you become a doormat you always will be one.

cperciva 11y ago

The only thing I dislike about this is the short timeframe of interviewing on Friday, and having to work that immediate weekend on the problem. Agreed. Another issue with the timeframe described: When is the current team expected to have a chance to look at the candidate's solution prior to the presentation? Stretch the timeline out a bit and everything becomes a lot easier.

junke 11y ago

Exactly, apparently everyone involved in the process is expected to work on weekends too: > make sure to be available for their questions via email over the weekend > A key aspect of this is that everyone in the group MUST come prepared, having looked through the solution.

pc86 11y ago
However it's easily tweaked for employers who want to do some flavor of this but actually respect their employees: > Have the candidate make assumptions and document their reasoning (risks invalidating the final product but that's a slim chance) > Meet late Monday or later that week One point I haven't seen mentioned here: If I'm currently employed and interviewing, I am not going to take two days of vacation just so that I can interview with you, work on something for you over my weekend, then interview with you again.
- junke 11y ago
  Well, context is everything. In principle, I do not want to be expected to work overtime, and it starts at the interview. Also, I am not against taking a day of vacation for interviews (but this is maybe cultural). But if the job is really interesting, I can adapt. And I appreciate the fact that if am asked to work during a week-end, the person interviewing me offers to be reachable too.

BinaryIdiot 11y ago

I also completely agree; this article provides a really good idea to weeding out candidates but weekends are a no go (especially if they don't give you any type of warning ahead of time; at least if there is warning things can be moved around and scheduled). A week is a good amount of time. Since they have to articulate their work when they return it's not like they can cheat; they're going to have to understand it well enough to talk about it and discuss the pros and cons of their design.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

dagw 11y ago

The only thing I dislike about this is the short timeframe of interviewing on Friday, and having to work that immediate weekend on the problem. I suspect that that might be a secret feature. If you cannot work that weekend due to other, more important plans, then that is a strong indicator that you might not be able to work other weekends in the future.

johnchristopher 11y ago
Then it should be clear in the recruitment process that working on weekends is non-negotiable so people who can't won't apply for the position. That shouldn't be a secret feature, they are wasting their own time and resources by hiding it to applicants.
- blazespin 11y ago
  Oh I dunno, maybe if you ace the interview they may skip that. Certain senior engineers who are in huge demand don't need to do such things. They have folks lining up to hire them without asking them to do programming assignments. I doubt the filter is used 100% of the time.
mironathetin 11y ago
"I suspect that that might be a secret feature." Yes, agreed. It may also test, if you are really serious with your application. If you are, there will be a way to free some time. This goes both ways: companies blow time to interview candidates, who just want to see how far they get. Or who plan to negotiate better terms with their current employer (happened to us recently, we paid flight, hotel, lost 3 months and a whole application round). Candidates blow their time by implementing stuff for companies, who just want cheap code or who want the best solution for a problem they cannot solve, or simply re-decide their plans after you invested your time for the coding. Both sides should find out how serious the others are. Payment for code is a good step. But if you pay, you can also ask for something, right?
- dagw 11y ago
  s/serious/desperate/

troels 11y ago

One benefit of making the timeframe short, is that the candidate isn't pressured into spending way too much time on it. You may say that they should only spend 2 hours, but in reality, someone who wants to make a good impression is going to spend far more. That said, I agree that weekends might not be the best for all candidates. Maybe tailor it to the individual case (E.g. ask them beforehand if weekends work, or they'd rather do it during the week)

robalfonso 11y ago
We usually have a take home quiz/test, it usually takes one hour or so to complete, and gives us a shot at seeing how one approaches certain problems. I once had a guy that built a whole web based suite that acted like a tour, took us through each problem and then ran the code and spit out the result and also showed the code running in the test in a syntax highlighted view. WAY over the top and took way longer then an hour, we hired him though :)

davedx 11y ago

I agree. Just had this come up with an interview I did yesterday. We agreed that a week for a ~6 hr assignment was reasonable. I explicitly noted that I have a family so they were aware I couldn't spend more than a couple of hours/night coding :)

fmavituna 11y ago

If we assume you actually want to work for this company (because culture, what they do etc.) then is it too much to risk one of your weekends? Do you think it's not worth the risk? If it's not worth the risk do you think it's a good hire for that company? Because in that case you clearly don't care much about the company and will jump the ship when next slightly better opportunity arrives. Possibly I'm assuming too much and don't mean this to be personal but I'm really curious, is this the case or am I missing something? Personally I feel about $100-200 fee as well, if the candidate is looking for compensation to build something fictional in 2 hours, is that candidate really care about your company, and is it a good idea to hire people who joins to your company just because you happen to be paying decent salary and they don't have a better option at the moment?

fringedgentian 11y ago
> Personally I feel about $100-200 fee as well, if the candidate is looking for compensation to build something fictional in 2 hours, is that candidate really care about your company, and is it a good idea to hire people who joins to your company just because you happen to be paying decent salary and they don't have a better option at the moment? The money is more of a token to show that the company values the candidate's time and is not having them complete this coding challenge lightly.
- fmavituna 11y ago
  > The money is more of a token to show that the company values the candidate's time and is not having them complete this coding challenge lightly. That's my point. If a candidate takes it lightly because you didn't pay some dollars, does she care enough? If not, is she still a good hire? Do you want to hire someone who doesn't care about the job or the company enough to even fail to provide full effort on their first assignment?
  - lwelyk 11y ago
    Why should an employee care a lot about a /potential/ job, especially if everyone they're talking to is doing the same thing?

Shivetya 11y ago

to be honest, an potential employer who expects this isn't one I would recommend to anyone. If they expect you to put them before family they are not worth working for. Seen it too many times, once you become a doormat you always will be one.