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Uber shakes up real estate market with massive lease in Oakland
- primitivesuave 11y agoOakland is already an attractive new location for tech companies. It is my sincerest hope that the policy-makers in Oakland see what happened in SF with housing, and are proactive in controlling rent to avoid displacing low-income people and most importantly, the people who contribute to the city's culture.
- w1ntermute 11y agoBecause tech workers clearly fail to "contribute to the city's culture."
- beatpanda 11y agoYes, they do, they are frequently rude, self-entitled, racist clueless idiots. And you can downvote me all day for that, I have karma to burn.
- ProAm 11y agoLargely they do.
- mc32 11y agoCulture is usually neither better or worse. Some subsets of cultures promote one thing over another and sometimes some outsiders fetishize some of those things (i.e. non-mainstreamers might fetishize upward mobility, consumerism, etc, mainstreamers might fetishize grit, hard-knock lives, etc. Some mainstreamers believe their culture is fraudulent, as if any culture can be classified as "genuine". Only ossified cultures can be genuine. And Non mainstreamers will, naturally seek to enter the mainstream but with a wish to hold on to the familiar (ie. culture) People with straight hair want curly and curly haired want straight hair.
- mjb394 11y agoI don't know anyone who works 60 hours a week and also participates in the kind of community that Oakland has. People actually know each other there! They talk to their neighbors and strangers on the street, and it brightens everyone's day to have that little touch of human connection. They go to parties and talk about things other than their jobs. They paint and draw and play music and plan events and fundraisers that are good for the community. I know techies who aspire to that kind of life, but thinking like you want to do something and actually doing it are very different things.
- danans 11y agoI work in tech, work reasonable hours, live in Oakland, and do all those things. I also have many neighbors who work in tech and outside tech (healthcare, law, skilled trades) and work reasonable hours, and do all those things. I think doing all those things is a function of whether someone is in a particular industry. It is a function of whether one has a desire to be involved in one's community. Having kids is a stronger predictor of community involvement if you are looking for one.
- ZanyProgrammer 11y agoAnd also build enough housing.
- kqr2 11y agoInstead of controlling rents, wouldn't it be better to adopt a housing policy which increases supply for everyone? For example, the office space is projected to house 3000 employees in 2 years. Why not plan on building about 3000 housing units in that same time frame?
- iribe 11y agoBecause that would decrease housing prices. What will happen is homeowners will talk about the need to keep Oakland's character, which is codeword for stopping development of housing to increase home values.
- mc32 11y agoAnd the renters (like me) will complain that the city (well, the permitting process they approve) is only promoting units for the financially relatively better off and is not subsidizing enough low rent units. So they scuttle low income housing to spite middle income housing.
- Pyxl101 11y agoWhy should a city subsidize housing? That seems like something the market should drive primarily. For that same reason, I'm skeptical about whether zoning and permiting are a good thing in general.
- mattlutze 11y agoWell, if cities control the zoning, they then have to ensure for the welfare of the housing market. If you, for example, block developers from adding more housing (cough San Francisco), you are supporting raising housing costs and pushing lower income citizens out of your city. If the market should drive the equation and the municipality meddle with either side of it, it's not a market in the way one normally infers.
- mc32 11y agoZoning and permitting are a good thing. It means a city can have long term planning and allocate resources and budget things accordingly. Mishmosh cities have existed and do currently exist in emerging economies, they tend to be chaotic and crime ridden messes. That said, I think zoning needs to be updated to reflect more modern economies. Mixed use, company housing (it's had a stained past, but still it can work, if governed properly), and the permitting should be less political and very much so more pragmatic. I rather detest the politization that has overtaken infrastructure building when it involves private investment. With regard to subsidized housing, I think we need it to allow the poor to afford a place to live. Now, I don't think anyone has a "right" to live in a particular place, but you also should want to facilitate people of all sorts of income levels to live in a given municipality. I'm not claiming diversity of vibrancy or any other pseudo reason people like to list, as they are based on feel good emotions. In addition, there are plenty of places that are very monocultural and are very vibrant (Tokyo) but at the same time we should try to include a diversity of strata and allow for people to move into the mainstream stratum, as most seek to achieve, in the fist place.
- anarchy8 11y agoRent control is what led to the mess in SF. I sincerely hope that Oakland works to adopt sane housing policies.
- mahyarm 11y agoOakland has rent control, with rates of %1.5-%3/yr. If it's a condo, house or 4-plex or under, normal rent control does not apply. Even then, the max is %10/yr, with a max of %30/5yrs. So if you have a $800/month tenant, it will take over 15 years to get their rent up to the current market rate of ~$2200/yr.
- dirkdk 11y agoLet's build more housing in Oakland. Way more space than in SF. And unfortunately Oakland is not building as much as it should https://medium.com/@Scott_Wiener/want-to-know-why-the-bay-area-has-a-housing-crisis-read-this-map-b4d7a56d12f1 https://medium.com/@Scott_Wiener/want-to-know-why-the-bay-ar...
- tdylan 11y agoI do not understand the rationale, a government program fails disastrously creating literally the opposite effect desired. And the suggestion is to have _more_ of said program?
- sneak 11y ago"You're just not doing it hard enough!"
- ancap 11y agoYou must understand that government is the opposite of a typical business. For example, NASA's space shuttle unexpectedly blows up, so congress immediately gives them a bunch more money under the rationale that they failed because they are "underfunded". If a business faced the same failure, they would lose business, their stock prices would fall down and they would have to work hard to persuade their customers that they had a mistake but they are fixing the problem. Just do a cursory search for the word "underfunded" in an article describing some government agency's failures and you will see this argument is quite common. There are countless examples.
- koberstein 11y agoWhy was this downvoted?
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- rdl 11y agoI'd heard this was going to be a Google office. Oh well. I wonder how much "not driving over the fucking bridge" is worth to people. Uber salaries tend to be pretty good (partially to make up for the stock being so high), and they have a great team, plus are clearly on a rocket ship trajectory, and are easy to explain as a product to anyone. Offering $150-250k cash, great overall packages, AND being able to buy or rent at almost-reasonable (i.e. 2011-2012 SF) levels is going to make them a really annoying competitor in hiring. Oakland for city people, the less-used Fremont to Oakland BART for the other people, or driving from places like Moraga for more rural people.
- rorski 11y agoAs someone who used to do the "reverse commute" from SF to Oakland for a couple years, I'd add that it's pretty attractive for SF residents who like a slightly less crazy pace as well. I mean, you can actually go places for lunch and get in, and not pay $14 for a sandwich. And going the opposite direction of traffic (or taking the opposite BART) sure beats sitting on the 101. But most people I worked with were definitely in the boat you describe - East Bay dwellers who really, really didn't want to deal with trying to fight their way into SF. And who can blame them? I think this is a great move for Oakland and Uber.
- jfb 11y agoPlus, you can take the ferry over. That's a sweet commute.
- rdl 11y agoThe broken internal-to-SF and internal-to-Oakland transit systems make that a bit complex, I think. I guess if you biked?
- jfb 11y agoI used to bike to the Ferry building from the Mission and then onto the office across the street from the Sears building. It was much better than taking the coach down to the Peninsula, that's for damn sure.
- rmason 11y agoLooks like the VC's are spearheading the move to Oakland. Chamath Palihapitaya from Social + Capital is planning a developers village apartment complex in Oakland with the goal of luring more Midwest coders to the West coast. http://techcrunch.com/2015/09/17/chamath-palihapitaya-on-insane-burn-rates-ipos-and-raising-a-new-real-estate-fund/ http://techcrunch.com/2015/09/17/chamath-palihapitaya-on-ins...
- pmorici 11y agoSeems overly optimistic to think that anyone from the midwest would be dumb enough to think that $80k was a livable salary for that area even in Oakland.
- aeling 11y agoAs a Midwestern coder, I could definitely see peers making that mistake - 80k seems like a lot when you're used to rent in the low hundreds. That said, where are you getting 80k? I didn't see it in either the GP link or the original story, and would expect Uber to be hiring at higher salaries than that given other comments in this thread re: the cash/stock split.
- muzmath 11y agoLow hundreds? Not even in the middle of no where in the midwest will the low hundreds get you a half-decent place.
- aeling 11y agoSorry, I should have clarified - I'm thinking of a few friends in particular who would be fresh-out-of-undergrad developers coming from shared apartments where they were paying $300-$350/mo. The change from 8k debt/year to 80k income/year is significant enough that there are people who wouldn't question the 80k number as a far-more-than-enough wage.
- philsnow 11y agoIn my last year of grad school, I splurged and got a three-bedroom apartment in the guest house behind the mansion of an auto industry magnate, with utilities paid for $745. This was an amazing apartment, too (though maybe it was only amazing in comparison to the cookie-cutter apartments I had stayed in before). I think it's quite possible to find rent in the low hundreds for a place that is "half decent".
- DigitalSea 11y agoThe gentrification of Oakland is now well and truly under-way after the great job gentrification did in San Francisco displacing thousands of people from their homes.
- beedogs 11y agoThe truth clearly hurts some people, as evidenced by the color of your comment. Ask anyone who isn't in tech in San Fran how easy it is to make ends meet in that city. Then ask them what their commute's like.
- Kalium 11y agoI know a guy in Oakland who complained about all the techies moving in. Then he said he's had three raises in two years.
- beatpanda 11y agoThis is going to go very, very poorly for Uber.
- prawn 11y agoYou should explain why.
- pikeymick 11y agoI saw teo people shot not far from here, the windows of Obama's campaign HQ smashed in with hammers down the street, and a homeless man crap on the steps of city hall in broad daylight. Welcome to Oakland Uber.
- masterleep 11y agoI guess it'll smell just like SF then.
- rdl 11y agoThe alternatives for similar real estate in SF would be near Twitter/Mid-Market (which is worse than Downtown Oakland IMO; probably on par with the shitty areas of San Pablo near 30th-35th St, but better than particularly bad parts of West Oakland or East Oakland, true), or Bayview/HP (also on par or worse). We're not talking about Pacific Heights or the Oakland Hills here :) Oakland downtown/uptown has property crime and some violent crime but it's not particularly bad compared to other areas. Most crime in both SF and Oakland (as it is anywhere) is poor people hurting other poor people.
- ChuckFrank 11y agoNo difference from just around the corner of the Twitter building. This isn't a homeless man crapping problem, it's an insufficient bathroom infrastructure problem, and yes most mid to large size American cities have it. Which is exacerbated by laxative type drugs. 'Hello Alcohol, Hello Heroin, I'm talking to you two.'
- lyall 11y agoHeroin, like pretty much all opioids, is actually the exact opposite of a laxative. Imodium (Loperamide), a common anti-diarrheal, is actually an opioid like heroin, and works by binding to and activating your body's opioid receptors. It just only binds to receptors in your large intestine, so it doesn't get you "high" like other opioids.
- cookiecaper 11y agoThis might be a nice way to comfort yourself about living not only in CA but in either SF or Oakland, but it's not real life. I've worked in the downtowns of multiple major metropolitan areas, and have never seen anyone defecate in public, nor have I witnessed a robbery. I was once pressed to buy crack in the Crossroads District of KCMO, but that's pretty much it. I used to walk from Crossroads to Crown Center for lunch and back again every day. Second most eventful walk: a couple of birds swooped down and tried to take some of my hair.
- evtothedev 11y agoNow if only Uber Pool would go to Oakland.
- Animats 11y agoThis is in addition to their new giant HQ in SF? Uber has an awful lot of overhead for a taxi company. [1] http://techcrunch.com/2015/05/28/uber-new-hq/ http://techcrunch.com/2015/05/28/uber-new-hq/
- gkoberger 11y agoUber has low overhead for a $50bn company. They've already won vs taxis. Now they're going for courier services, buses, food delivery and even cleaning services. They aren't part of the sharing economy, they're trying to be the sharing economy.
- joelrunyon 11y agoWhere have you seen the cleaning services?
- gkoberger 11y agoRumor, but: https://twitter.com/om/status/444681883083735040 https://twitter.com/om/status/444681883083735040
- jedberg 11y agoNo no they aren't a taxi company. They are a marketplace that matches people selling space in their car with people who need space in a car. Until they get their self driving cars, and then the are a transportation and logistics company. But they definitely aren't a taxi company
- gozo 11y agoOf course they are, everything else is just PR at the moment. That said, they are (the first?) global taxi company. No one is surprised that global retailers, like e.g. H&M, have huge headquarters.
- noer 11y agoThey're a company you can contact to dispatch a car to take you where you want to go that charges you by distance traveled. If that's not a taxi, I don't know what is.
- anigbrowl 11y agoIf Uber really wants to earn goodwill in Oakland (which is worth thinking about because the local anarchists are probably planning their protests already), it would be worth renovating the exterior of the building too. A lot of buildings in downtown Oakland have beautiful art deco facades that were covered up with ugly concrete facings in the 1950s in a misguided attempt to look more modern. Bringing out some of Oakland's original business history would garner a ton of long-term community goodwill.
- rdl 11y agoI suspect Art Deco is already popular with Uber's leadership for other reasons :)
- nailer 11y agoWhat are those reasons?
- redwood 11y agoHe's referring to the German connection. A leap but also undeniable that many Americans do not have positive associations with the word "uber. Still the era was not Germany's worst... But the worst was born in it (the Weimar Republic) where reactionaries took root and exploded.
- rdl 11y agoAyn Rand liked it, her book covers, etc. Uber is known for liking Rand.
- Kalium 11y agoHonestly, I'm not sure it's worth the effort for them. They're already attracting a lot of hate for being a VC-fueled company that undercut an established business and employing mostly white dudes. What value can they expect to gain from showering money on a community already hellbent on hating them?
- hiou 11y agoRemember kids, Oakland is actually closer to Market St/Mission than most of SF.
- tfigueroa 11y agoListen. Pandora is two blocks away, so I can say it: this is a bad move for Uber. * Oakland isn't cool anymore. We were here before it was cool. And we are barely cool. * Attrition is terrible. Coworkers either get shot or are poached by Clorox. I heard we lost a Glass developer to the dock worker's union. * Mass transit at that particular location is astounding: the free green bus, the ferry, BART, an AC transit hub. What I'm saying is that it's too ironic for Uber to be there. * The best milkshakes are at True Burger, the best banh mi is in Chinatown, and the best parking is at YMCA. Does any of that make sense? No, of course not. Avoid Oakland at all costs. The real hot spot? Hayward.
- jaredhansen 11y agoReminds me of my two favorite bumper stickers: If you love Kauai, send your friends to Maui. and Surfing sucks, don't try it!
- pyrrhotech 11y agoAs someone who lives in Hayward (and owns real estate there) I hope you are right. Do you know of any companies moving to Hayward?