4 ms·

I'm pretty confident that the penalty for this crime, which has a name: "tax evasion", is not "men with guns will fucking shoot you dead".

by afshin 11y ago

msandford 11y ago
Way to take his point completely out of context. Tax evasion doesn't get you killed, but resisting arrest for tax evasion just might end up with you dead.
- afshin 11y ago
  But that's exactly the point: "point guns at law enforcement and you'll likely get killed" isn't quite as outrageous as "not paying your taxes gets you killed". Conflating those two only clouds the argument.
  - msandford 11y ago
    What you're saying is "The veneer is so civilized! What are you, a savage?" And what he's saying is "The thing underlying the veneer is pretty savage, which taints the idea that everything is so civilized" That's a point you seem to completely miss.
    - afshin 11y ago
      I don't think that's accurate. What I'm saying is "taxes are not collected at gunpoint" and also "you will not be executed for failing to pay your taxes". You might be jailed for not paying your taxes. That's not a death sentence. If the counter-point is that you can escalate the situation by attempting to resist the state's monopoly on violence, then sure. I concede that. I don't believe the thing underlying the veneer is savage. Quite the contrary.
      - msandford 11y ago
        The penalty for rejecting the state's assertion of its authority over you (whether legitimate or not) is generally death. At the hands of whatever agency has noticed your rejection. So if you think you shouldn't have to pay taxes, because the state isn't a legitimate authority, it's quite likely that you'll end up dying. Finally while taxes aren't collected directly by a person with a gun, failure to be sufficiently subservient while dealing with the state can result in your death. It's unfortunate that the state grants itself (in all its forms) much, much more privilege or leeway than any non-state actor would enjoy in a similar dispute. In other words, if you fail to pay a debt to another citizen or non-governmental entity, it's usually handled much, much differently than failing to pay a debt to the government. That double standard definitely doesn't feel right to many folks, and I think that's a very reasonable point to make.

I'm pretty confident that the penalty for this crime, which has a name: "tax evasion", is not "men with guns will fucking shoot you dead".

by afshin 11y ago

I'm pretty confident that the penalty for this crime, which has a name: "tax evasion", is not "men with guns will fucking shoot you dead".

msandford 11y ago

Way to take his point completely out of context. Tax evasion doesn't get you killed, but resisting arrest for tax evasion just might end up with you dead.

afshin 11y ago
But that's exactly the point: "point guns at law enforcement and you'll likely get killed" isn't quite as outrageous as "not paying your taxes gets you killed". Conflating those two only clouds the argument.
- msandford 11y ago
  What you're saying is "The veneer is so civilized! What are you, a savage?" And what he's saying is "The thing underlying the veneer is pretty savage, which taints the idea that everything is so civilized" That's a point you seem to completely miss.
  - afshin 11y ago
    I don't think that's accurate. What I'm saying is "taxes are not collected at gunpoint" and also "you will not be executed for failing to pay your taxes". You might be jailed for not paying your taxes. That's not a death sentence. If the counter-point is that you can escalate the situation by attempting to resist the state's monopoly on violence, then sure. I concede that. I don't believe the thing underlying the veneer is savage. Quite the contrary.
    - msandford 11y ago
      The penalty for rejecting the state's assertion of its authority over you (whether legitimate or not) is generally death. At the hands of whatever agency has noticed your rejection. So if you think you shouldn't have to pay taxes, because the state isn't a legitimate authority, it's quite likely that you'll end up dying. Finally while taxes aren't collected directly by a person with a gun, failure to be sufficiently subservient while dealing with the state can result in your death. It's unfortunate that the state grants itself (in all its forms) much, much more privilege or leeway than any non-state actor would enjoy in a similar dispute. In other words, if you fail to pay a debt to another citizen or non-governmental entity, it's usually handled much, much differently than failing to pay a debt to the government. That double standard definitely doesn't feel right to many folks, and I think that's a very reasonable point to make.