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I personally don't think the pace of change is accelerating, I think the uniformity of acceptance of change is. In regards to your second paragraph, I don't kn

I personally don't think the pace of change is accelerating, I think the uniformity of acceptance of change is. In regards to your second paragraph, I don't know if 'more authentic' really means what you think it does. I've had the idea for a while that traditions around food are a lot more fungible than is popularly thought. Something like the documentary The Search for General Tso [ http://www.thesearchforgeneraltso.com/ http://www.thesearchforgeneraltso.com/ ] or Rachel Laudan's work [ http://www.utne.com/environment/fast-food-culinary-ethos.aspx http://www.utne.com/environment/fast-food-culinary-ethos.asp... or https://www.jacobinmag.com/2015/05/slow-food-artisanal-natural-preservatives/ https://www.jacobinmag.com/2015/05/slow-food-artisanal-natur... ] better illustrates it than I could in a comment.

Tenhundfeld 11y ago
Well, I guess we just disagree. I think if you look back over the last 500 years, modern society is changing faster – technologically and culturally. Society is undergoing massive shifts more frequently, with the move from agrarian societies to the industrial revolution to the information age to the coming, IMO, biotech revolution. Or to use the classic example, I think if you plucked an adult from 1500 and transported them to 1600, they'd be able to understand and navigate society much better than someone plucked from 1915 transported to 2015. Related to your point though is the idea that change is not just happening faster, IMO, it's spreading more uniformly due to globalization, e.g., cellphones have spread to all but the most impoverished, over 90% of the global population at the last estimate I saw. And yes, I'm aware of Rachel Laudan, though I haven't seen The Search for General Tso. "More authentic" is clearly vague, context-dependent, and ever changing, akin to "proper grammar". You can intellectualize it forever, which can be fun, but eventually you should try actually tasting the food. You will taste the difference in a bagel made from traditional ingredients, i.e., no fats. You can rightly argue about exactly what is meant by "traditional," but at some point, there's a way that's been practiced for hundreds of years and there's a newer, more automated way. That's not to say I'm right or that the factory-produced food is always worse. I know many people who think Panera has fantastic bagels. I disagree and think they're far too spongey. But there is a difference.
- russnewcomer 11y ago
  Maybe technologically, but there have been significant technological advances almost every 100 years that don't look as significant to us because we're way past them. The jump from sailing to steamships doesn't seem that big to us, but in terms of reliability, speed, etc, etc, etc, it was an incredible leap, similar to propellers to jets. I don't know about culturally. If you plucked a European adult from 1500 and dropped them in the same city in 1600, chances are the Protestant Reformation would have done a pretty big shakeup of their cultural and societal expectations. Food is weird. Not arguing that there is a difference between 'modern' bagels and 'traditional' bagels, just arguing that the traditional way is perhaps not as traditional as someone might think, and I would guess that 'hundreds' of years isn't in many cases (perhaps not specifically with bagels, I'm not a bagel expert, when I eat them I buy the bag of mini-bagels from Aldi).
  - Tenhundfeld 11y ago
    Yeah, maybe I've just drunk too much of the Ray Kurzweil, "the singularity is nigh" koolaid. I think you're right that perspective is important. And I totally agree: food is weird. One of my favorite little mind-expanding (for most people) topics of conversation is how so many ingredients we consider to be iconic of certain cuisines came from the new world. For example, before ~1500 there were no tomatoes in Italian food, no chili peppers in Thai/Indian food, no Belgian/Swiss chocolate, no potatoes in Ireland, etc.
- Retric 11y ago
  Plenty of things have slowed down. For example engine horsepower/lb used to double regularly, but we are past the point of diminishing returns so a car from 10 years ago is more or less just as fast. Guns are another area where 1,000 years from now people will look back and see zero progress from say 1950-now. Just as we look back on bows and ignore the 'minor' improvements and more or less meaningless. So, really it's less progress speeding up, so much as ignoring what's static and focusing on the few things that are actually changing.

Tenhundfeld 11y ago

Well, I guess we just disagree. I think if you look back over the last 500 years, modern society is changing faster – technologically and culturally. Society is undergoing massive shifts more frequently, with the move from agrarian societies to the industrial revolution to the information age to the coming, IMO, biotech revolution. Or to use the classic example, I think if you plucked an adult from 1500 and transported them to 1600, they'd be able to understand and navigate society much better than someone plucked from 1915 transported to 2015. Related to your point though is the idea that change is not just happening faster, IMO, it's spreading more uniformly due to globalization, e.g., cellphones have spread to all but the most impoverished, over 90% of the global population at the last estimate I saw. And yes, I'm aware of Rachel Laudan, though I haven't seen The Search for General Tso. "More authentic" is clearly vague, context-dependent, and ever changing, akin to "proper grammar". You can intellectualize it forever, which can be fun, but eventually you should try actually tasting the food. You will taste the difference in a bagel made from traditional ingredients, i.e., no fats. You can rightly argue about exactly what is meant by "traditional," but at some point, there's a way that's been practiced for hundreds of years and there's a newer, more automated way. That's not to say I'm right or that the factory-produced food is always worse. I know many people who think Panera has fantastic bagels. I disagree and think they're far too spongey. But there is a difference.

russnewcomer 11y ago
Maybe technologically, but there have been significant technological advances almost every 100 years that don't look as significant to us because we're way past them. The jump from sailing to steamships doesn't seem that big to us, but in terms of reliability, speed, etc, etc, etc, it was an incredible leap, similar to propellers to jets. I don't know about culturally. If you plucked a European adult from 1500 and dropped them in the same city in 1600, chances are the Protestant Reformation would have done a pretty big shakeup of their cultural and societal expectations. Food is weird. Not arguing that there is a difference between 'modern' bagels and 'traditional' bagels, just arguing that the traditional way is perhaps not as traditional as someone might think, and I would guess that 'hundreds' of years isn't in many cases (perhaps not specifically with bagels, I'm not a bagel expert, when I eat them I buy the bag of mini-bagels from Aldi).
- Tenhundfeld 11y ago
  Yeah, maybe I've just drunk too much of the Ray Kurzweil, "the singularity is nigh" koolaid. I think you're right that perspective is important. And I totally agree: food is weird. One of my favorite little mind-expanding (for most people) topics of conversation is how so many ingredients we consider to be iconic of certain cuisines came from the new world. For example, before ~1500 there were no tomatoes in Italian food, no chili peppers in Thai/Indian food, no Belgian/Swiss chocolate, no potatoes in Ireland, etc.
Retric 11y ago
Plenty of things have slowed down. For example engine horsepower/lb used to double regularly, but we are past the point of diminishing returns so a car from 10 years ago is more or less just as fast. Guns are another area where 1,000 years from now people will look back and see zero progress from say 1950-now. Just as we look back on bows and ignore the 'minor' improvements and more or less meaningless. So, really it's less progress speeding up, so much as ignoring what's static and focusing on the few things that are actually changing.