4 ms·

Not being in your ideal field is a useful data point.

by Guvante 11y ago

stupidcar 11y ago
No it isn't. Everyone has pipe dreams about things they imagine they'd like to do, it's human nature to fantasise this way. All it tells you is that they have a basic level of imagination. These ideas appeal to us precisely because they're unrealistic, and outside of our experience and day-to-day life, and probably not achievable. That lets them retain a haziness that obscures the difficulties, compromises and risk that actually pursuing them would inevitably entail. If somebody volunteers that they'd rather be a professional surfer than a software developer, then spends the whole interview bringing it up, then that's a red flag. If you explicitly ask them to spin a flight of fancy then judge them for not having pursued it, then you're an extraordinarily unfair interviewer.
- Guvante 11y ago
  You are assuming the interviewer is looking at it in a black and white fashion. I was more pointing towards the more mundane goals. For instance in game development there are lots of roles including designing and developing. If I am hiring a developer and you say you want to design that is a very valuable piece of feedback that doesn't exclude you from the position. For instance it could mean that of the two positions one may be a better fit because it involves more architectural work. In your example that isn't nearly as useful, wanting to focus on your hobby is not a negative at all. An example of a problem would be hiring for a legacy system and having someone say they want to work with the latest and greatest tools. The reality is that isn't going to happen and the fact that you are going to be looking out for another job quickly means it would be better for both of us to avoid the hire (again all things being equal).
dalke 11y ago
Really? How so? I have lots of dreams but there is only one reality. I have to choose which of my dreams to follow. If we posit a dream world, with a different set of constraints, then why shouldn't you expect the answers to be different? If you ask for one dream job, and I have 9 dream jobs, including software developer, dance instructor, and grad student, how do I provide the example you're looking for? If I choose wrong, how does that affect my job chances?
- dx211 11y ago
  No Hire. As a software developer, 110% of your passion should be for code, followed by a couple of harmless, minor interests like bicycling or craft beer.
  - dalke 11y ago
    Nice sarcasm, combining the mathematically impossible language of a mid-rank manager with the conformity a capitalist factory owner wants. Long-haired freaky people need not apply! No union organizers! Out of curiosity, I looked up the history of '110%'. https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=give+110%25&year_start=1800&year_end=2015&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Cgive%20110%20%25%3B%2Cc0 https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=give+110%25&ye... shows that 'give 110%' started in the 1960s. Reviewing Google Books, 'give 110%' comes from sports. "Sports, Games, and Play: Social and Psychological Viewpoints" (1979) https://books.google.com/books?id=yKNMmmec8jgC&pg=PA114&dq=%22give+110%25%22&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=%22give%20110%25%22&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=yKNMmmec8jgC&pg=PA114&dq=%... gives a lovely contextualization: > So we devise terms to describe our heroes an heroines and place them on pedestals so they may act as models. We develop a whole new jock vocabulary that incorporates all of the cultural models. Our winning athletes ... give 110%, they never say die, play with pain, or give till it hurts. Then in the 1980s, the sports term started to get used in business. One of the earliest matches for "110%" I found used in this context is an ad in the Rotarian, a publication of the Rotary service club. In 1986 you could by a computer that was "110% IBM" - https://books.google.com/books?id=EDYEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA62&dq=110%25&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=110%25&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=EDYEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA62&dq=11... . Within the next few years, the phrase became much more widespread. I think this 1989 ad for Mennen brand deodorant https://books.google.com/books?id=dmuI3YaWtAIC&lpg=PA7&dq=110%25&pg=PA7#v=onepage&q&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=dmuI3YaWtAIC&lpg=PA7&dq=11... makes a clear connection between sports and the managerial class. Then by 1991 there was the business book 'The 110% Solution: Using Good Old American Know-How to Manage Your Time, Talent, and Ideas'. Sports, boosterism, and business school, all wrapped up in one conveniently impossible phrase. The language of jocks now fully repurposed to maximize production.
- 11y ago
cryoshon 11y ago
And yet another incentive to game the question and lie.
- Guvante 11y ago
  If you are going to lie you better be passionate about it. The primary goal of that kind of question is to get you to be excited.

Not being in your ideal field is a useful data point.

by Guvante 11y ago

Not being in your ideal field is a useful data point.

No it isn't. Everyone has pipe dreams about things they imagine they'd like to do, it's human nature to fantasise this way. All it tells you is that they have a basic level of imagination. These ideas appeal to us precisely because they're unrealistic, and outside of our experience and day-to-day life, and probably not achievable. That lets them retain a haziness that obscures the difficulties, compromises and risk that actually pursuing them would inevitably entail. If somebody volunteers that they'd rather be a professional surfer than a software developer, then spends the whole interview bringing it up, then that's a red flag. If you explicitly ask them to spin a flight of fancy then judge them for not having pursued it, then you're an extraordinarily unfair interviewer.

Guvante 11y ago
You are assuming the interviewer is looking at it in a black and white fashion. I was more pointing towards the more mundane goals. For instance in game development there are lots of roles including designing and developing. If I am hiring a developer and you say you want to design that is a very valuable piece of feedback that doesn't exclude you from the position. For instance it could mean that of the two positions one may be a better fit because it involves more architectural work. In your example that isn't nearly as useful, wanting to focus on your hobby is not a negative at all. An example of a problem would be hiring for a legacy system and having someone say they want to work with the latest and greatest tools. The reality is that isn't going to happen and the fact that you are going to be looking out for another job quickly means it would be better for both of us to avoid the hire (again all things being equal).

dalke 11y ago

Really? How so? I have lots of dreams but there is only one reality. I have to choose which of my dreams to follow. If we posit a dream world, with a different set of constraints, then why shouldn't you expect the answers to be different? If you ask for one dream job, and I have 9 dream jobs, including software developer, dance instructor, and grad student, how do I provide the example you're looking for? If I choose wrong, how does that affect my job chances?

dx211 11y ago
No Hire. As a software developer, 110% of your passion should be for code, followed by a couple of harmless, minor interests like bicycling or craft beer.
- dalke 11y ago
  Nice sarcasm, combining the mathematically impossible language of a mid-rank manager with the conformity a capitalist factory owner wants. Long-haired freaky people need not apply! No union organizers! Out of curiosity, I looked up the history of '110%'. https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=give+110%25&year_start=1800&year_end=2015&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Cgive%20110%20%25%3B%2Cc0 https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=give+110%25&ye... shows that 'give 110%' started in the 1960s. Reviewing Google Books, 'give 110%' comes from sports. "Sports, Games, and Play: Social and Psychological Viewpoints" (1979) https://books.google.com/books?id=yKNMmmec8jgC&pg=PA114&dq=%22give+110%25%22&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=%22give%20110%25%22&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=yKNMmmec8jgC&pg=PA114&dq=%... gives a lovely contextualization: > So we devise terms to describe our heroes an heroines and place them on pedestals so they may act as models. We develop a whole new jock vocabulary that incorporates all of the cultural models. Our winning athletes ... give 110%, they never say die, play with pain, or give till it hurts. Then in the 1980s, the sports term started to get used in business. One of the earliest matches for "110%" I found used in this context is an ad in the Rotarian, a publication of the Rotary service club. In 1986 you could by a computer that was "110% IBM" - https://books.google.com/books?id=EDYEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA62&dq=110%25&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=110%25&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=EDYEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA62&dq=11... . Within the next few years, the phrase became much more widespread. I think this 1989 ad for Mennen brand deodorant https://books.google.com/books?id=dmuI3YaWtAIC&lpg=PA7&dq=110%25&pg=PA7#v=onepage&q&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=dmuI3YaWtAIC&lpg=PA7&dq=11... makes a clear connection between sports and the managerial class. Then by 1991 there was the business book 'The 110% Solution: Using Good Old American Know-How to Manage Your Time, Talent, and Ideas'. Sports, boosterism, and business school, all wrapped up in one conveniently impossible phrase. The language of jocks now fully repurposed to maximize production.
11y ago

cryoshon 11y ago

And yet another incentive to game the question and lie.

Guvante 11y ago
If you are going to lie you better be passionate about it. The primary goal of that kind of question is to get you to be excited.