16 ms·

Fedora 23 Beta released

106 points by xd1936 11y ago

farresito 11y ago
I see Wayland is getting ready. I wonder when we will see it by default in most distros.
- xd1936 11y ago
  Wasn't Wayland supposed to be 100% default in Fedora 23?
  - baghira 11y ago
    It's been pushed to Fedora 24. Still, supposedly with 23 everything should work the same (instead on 22 there were still features missing), allowing to iron out the bugs (well, some of them).
    - xd1936 11y ago
      Probably for the best.
      - mattdm 11y ago
        Yeah, the plan is to have one full release where we feel like Wayland works 100% as non-default, and then switch to the default the next release. We aren't at that point yet.
mathnode 11y ago
Long time Fedora user here. Love it. It's so clean and generic. No fuss, no bullshit. The workstation build they have worked on for a few releases now was a real boon. Just like OSX, I just get on with it, and I don't notice it.
- madez 11y ago
  I thought well about Fedora until I found out that encryption was crippled in Fedora.
  - teh_klev 11y ago
    Citation?
    - madez 11y ago
      https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=319901 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=319901
      - teh_klev 11y ago
        Looks fixed to me since 2013: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=319901#c98 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=319901#c98
      - dijit 11y ago
        Even if you say "it's fixed now" the fact that this problem existed for 6 years. (SIX YEARS! screams internally) and the handling of it "we'll close this ticket WONTFIX if you discuss patents here" is so terrible that it's shaken my perception of RedHat in regards to Fedora. CentOS was packaged and shipping (I know it wasn't redhat owned, but they are binary compatible, right?) with the elliptic curve options enabled. I'm still running Fedora 21 on my machine at home, I've been using Fedup to upgrade since Fedora 17 and it's still working! but this has caused enough doubt about their intentions that I may end up replacing my distro.
        rwmj 11y ago
        Red Hat is a multi-billion dollar US corporation. They are absolutely a target for every crappy patent troll out there, and they do have to take this stuff very seriously. Plus, even discussing a patent causes wilful liability. If you don't like it, change US law.
JustSomeNobody 11y ago
Was only yesterday trying to get Fedora 22 running in a VM (using Proxmox). Live "cd" runs fine, but reboot into installed system hangs. Maybe I'll give Fedora 23 beta a shot.
- craigching 11y ago
  I've run all Fedora's since 18 and including 22 in vbox and have had no problems.
  - JustSomeNobody 11y ago
    Oh, I'm sure it is a problem with my end. I'm still new to using Proxmox, so I'm sure there's something I am not doing correctly.
zero-rated 11y ago
I was a hardcore Red hat/Fedora user for years (the main reason being I prefer rpm package system over deb) but Linux Mint has won me over. With Mint, everything works straight out of the box - except for dual monitors, which was a cinch to set up. Great distro.
- noir_lord 11y ago
  I moved from Mint XFCE to Xubuntu and in the 15.04 release everything works out the box as well, even the monitor setup with the open source radeon drivers via xfce4-display-settings -m is one of the best I've used for 3 screens with one rotated. Absolutely painless all around and XFCE 4.12 is a nice little upgrade just gentle improvement all around but functionally the same.
- bgibson 11y ago
  What do you like better about rpm vs deb?
briarrose 11y ago
I switched to Fedora after aging out some old Mac hardware only Ubuntu seemed to support. My primary motivator was the appearance of Amazon on my Unity desktop and Canonical's increasing desire to go it's own way with technologies like Mir. I've been very happy with Fedora and Gnome 3 since the latter hit 3.12 or so. There are still some edge cases like the ability to snap windows to corners that I really think should be addressed but otherwise I'm a happy camper.
- 0xFFC 11y ago
  You are so naive if you think redhat(or samsung) does not control wayland. Both player redhat/samusng/intel/etc and canonical wants only what in their interest ! Sadly in linux community redhat is more vocal than any other player (because of their money and their long history in linux), and people think whatever redhat supports it is best and free and better and all these ridiculous arguments. Which is not , comparing in only license shows me Mir is GPLv3 (which is best for software freedom) vs MIT License which is just another mediocre opensource license. People get manipulated very easily . If you want privacy you should not use any ubuntu/fedora like distro , use something like tail or fsf approved distro. But if you don't care about privacy and stil you criticizing canonical for mir you are just another guy manipulated in linux community about redhat being cool and canonical being evil.
Philipp__ 11y ago
I liked Fedora. Since release 21 they are really stepping up their game in terms of quality. But I can't see myself using it in any foreseeable future. I'm just enjoying rolling release distros (Arch) too much, that going back to Fedora would felt like 2008 again...
- bbatha 11y ago
  Fedora has a rolling release channel too: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/Rawhide https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/Rawhide
  - wcchandler 11y ago
    Rawhide's really only designed for testing, not anything "stable"
    - mattdm 11y ago
      Basically true, but if you don't mind the occasional hiccup, you can run it as your daily system. (I do — but I also keep another laptop handy with the latest stable release.) The most likely problems are simply dependencies getting out of sync, which results in a) updates not applying and b) an uninstallable nightly state — not actually a broken system. We're working (slowly — we've got a decade of inertia) on an automated system to move updates which break this consistency to a "side tag", so they can be worked on without breaking the main tree. And possibly in the future we can actually have a similar thing with automated functional testing (but... don't hold your breath). (Also, shout-out to openSUSE, where they're already doing a lot of this.) Of course, as with any "rolling release", you have "oh look, the UI of my software is different today".
    - groks 11y ago
      Not any more: http://www.scrye.com/wordpress/nirik/2015/09/18/rawhide-notes-from-the-trail-2015-09-18/ http://www.scrye.com/wordpress/nirik/2015/09/18/rawhide-note...
- dice 11y ago
blinkingled 11y ago
Ongoing stability leaves a lot to be desired with Fedora. The utter disregard for bug reports and general aggression towards pushing untested bleeding edge broken updates with no equivalent of Ubuntu LTS means I'll stick to Ubuntu for a long time. I even donated to them recently.
- rwmj 11y ago
  CentOS is the "long term support" version of Fedora. RHEL / CentOS 7.0 was forked from Fedora 18/19. It is supported for 10 years.
  - blinkingled 11y ago
    For servers that is fine - try installing CentOS on your newer laptop or workstation. Even if you did get it to install, the s/w stack is way too outdated. Between that and Fedora being the extreme, Ubuntu LTS is a well balanced choice for workstation/laptops - you get stack refreshes periodically with point releases and it is not so bleeding edge as to be unusable.
    - rwmj 11y ago
      Internally Red Hat gives every employee a laptop running RHEL 7 (it was RHEL 6 until quite recently). Also RHEL 7 version numbers don't necessarily reflect the upstream version of the software, since Red Hat actively backports major features and fixes.
    - jvoorhis 11y ago
      I've found CentOS 7 to be remarkably stable in recent laptop configurations. Main issues encountered were the odd package with hacky systemd integration.
    - cozzyd 11y ago
      EL7 is fairly up to date, I have no trouble running it on my workstation at work. EPEL helps too.
- teh_klev 11y ago
WorldWideWayne 11y ago
I wish they'd stop copying the klunky OS X ui anti-patterns.
- teh_klev 11y ago
  Well install a different front end, isn't that what the spirit of Linux, Freedom, etc is all about. They even make it easy for you: https://spins.fedoraproject.org/ https://spins.fedoraproject.org/
  - keithpeter 11y ago
    I'm downloading the Workstation beta now mainly to have a look at Gnome 3.18. I have quite liked Gnome 3 since around 3.4 (used the Debian Wheezy manifestation). I can't seem to get on with KDE but that is probably just me. For the 'just do stuff' laptop, I find xfce4 reassuringly gradualist. I'm using version 4.10 with whisker-menu bound to Mod4-space, and with the panel brought down to the bottom of the screen. I hand this laptop to students who are used to Windows and they have no problems with the navigation at all. Slackware as underlying OS but almost any of the larger distros will package a full xfce4 desktop session.
    - teh_klev 11y ago
      I must give Gnome 3 another spin. I fell out of love with Gnome 3 whenever it popped up in Fedora 16? or 17? and switched to KDE 4 which I kinda like. I have a spare Dell Vostro 1720 laptop with a nice 1900x1200 display I can blow away and play with. My main machine is still Windows 7 (about to be 10) because I spend 50% of my day inside Visual Studio/SQL Server/IIS, and we still use Exchange (therefore Outlook) and Word...etc. Also for the life of me I still cannot get Fortigate's VPN client (essential because I'm a remote worker) to play nice with Linux yet, otherwise I'd probably switch and virtualise my Windows bits. I know the Linux OpenVPN stuff should work with our VPN hardware but I've never worked out which knobs to to dial, maybe a project for the weekend.
  - WorldWideWayne 11y ago
    Thanks, but they obviously put all of their fine work into the Gnome front-end and using a different spin doesn't get you any of that. The number of customizations that need to be installed and maintained between updates to make this OS X-like abomination usable is ridiculous.
MichaelStubbs 11y ago
Reminder: if you want to be awesome, please help seed the torrents listed on http://torrents.fedoraproject.org/ http://torrents.fedoraproject.org/ - just set them up on my Scaleway seedbox.
mindcrime 11y ago
I run Fedora 22 with KDE Plasma on my Toshiba laptop and it's been great. The only real issue was a couple of the kernel releases did something weird to Java apps like Eclipse, Gephi, Cytoscape, etc. But the latest one works fine. Otherwise it just works, with the one small glitch that sometimes when I reboot, the icons on my desktop get rearranged for no apparent reason. In the grand scheme of things, I can live with that.
cozzyd 11y ago
I've been preupgrading/fedupping since 17 on my current computer with no major problems (although I usually wait a month or two to upgrade). I think every release has been an improvement.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

106 points by xd1936 11y ago

farresito 11y ago

I see Wayland is getting ready. I wonder when we will see it by default in most distros.

xd1936 11y ago
Wasn't Wayland supposed to be 100% default in Fedora 23?
- baghira 11y ago
  It's been pushed to Fedora 24. Still, supposedly with 23 everything should work the same (instead on 22 there were still features missing), allowing to iron out the bugs (well, some of them).
  - xd1936 11y ago
    Probably for the best.
    - mattdm 11y ago
      Yeah, the plan is to have one full release where we feel like Wayland works 100% as non-default, and then switch to the default the next release. We aren't at that point yet.

mathnode 11y ago

Long time Fedora user here. Love it. It's so clean and generic. No fuss, no bullshit. The workstation build they have worked on for a few releases now was a real boon. Just like OSX, I just get on with it, and I don't notice it.

madez 11y ago
I thought well about Fedora until I found out that encryption was crippled in Fedora.
- teh_klev 11y ago
  Citation?
  - madez 11y ago
    https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=319901 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=319901
    - teh_klev 11y ago
      Looks fixed to me since 2013: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=319901#c98 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=319901#c98
    - dijit 11y ago
      Even if you say "it's fixed now" the fact that this problem existed for 6 years. (SIX YEARS! screams internally) and the handling of it "we'll close this ticket WONTFIX if you discuss patents here" is so terrible that it's shaken my perception of RedHat in regards to Fedora. CentOS was packaged and shipping (I know it wasn't redhat owned, but they are binary compatible, right?) with the elliptic curve options enabled. I'm still running Fedora 21 on my machine at home, I've been using Fedup to upgrade since Fedora 17 and it's still working! but this has caused enough doubt about their intentions that I may end up replacing my distro.
      - rwmj 11y ago
        Red Hat is a multi-billion dollar US corporation. They are absolutely a target for every crappy patent troll out there, and they do have to take this stuff very seriously. Plus, even discussing a patent causes wilful liability. If you don't like it, change US law.

JustSomeNobody 11y ago

Was only yesterday trying to get Fedora 22 running in a VM (using Proxmox). Live "cd" runs fine, but reboot into installed system hangs. Maybe I'll give Fedora 23 beta a shot.

craigching 11y ago
I've run all Fedora's since 18 and including 22 in vbox and have had no problems.
- JustSomeNobody 11y ago
  Oh, I'm sure it is a problem with my end. I'm still new to using Proxmox, so I'm sure there's something I am not doing correctly.

zero-rated 11y ago

I was a hardcore Red hat/Fedora user for years (the main reason being I prefer rpm package system over deb) but Linux Mint has won me over. With Mint, everything works straight out of the box - except for dual monitors, which was a cinch to set up. Great distro.

noir_lord 11y ago
I moved from Mint XFCE to Xubuntu and in the 15.04 release everything works out the box as well, even the monitor setup with the open source radeon drivers via xfce4-display-settings -m is one of the best I've used for 3 screens with one rotated. Absolutely painless all around and XFCE 4.12 is a nice little upgrade just gentle improvement all around but functionally the same.
bgibson 11y ago
What do you like better about rpm vs deb?

briarrose 11y ago

I switched to Fedora after aging out some old Mac hardware only Ubuntu seemed to support. My primary motivator was the appearance of Amazon on my Unity desktop and Canonical's increasing desire to go it's own way with technologies like Mir. I've been very happy with Fedora and Gnome 3 since the latter hit 3.12 or so. There are still some edge cases like the ability to snap windows to corners that I really think should be addressed but otherwise I'm a happy camper.

0xFFC 11y ago
You are so naive if you think redhat(or samsung) does not control wayland. Both player redhat/samusng/intel/etc and canonical wants only what in their interest ! Sadly in linux community redhat is more vocal than any other player (because of their money and their long history in linux), and people think whatever redhat supports it is best and free and better and all these ridiculous arguments. Which is not , comparing in only license shows me Mir is GPLv3 (which is best for software freedom) vs MIT License which is just another mediocre opensource license. People get manipulated very easily . If you want privacy you should not use any ubuntu/fedora like distro , use something like tail or fsf approved distro. But if you don't care about privacy and stil you criticizing canonical for mir you are just another guy manipulated in linux community about redhat being cool and canonical being evil.

Philipp__ 11y ago

I liked Fedora. Since release 21 they are really stepping up their game in terms of quality. But I can't see myself using it in any foreseeable future. I'm just enjoying rolling release distros (Arch) too much, that going back to Fedora would felt like 2008 again...

bbatha 11y ago
Fedora has a rolling release channel too: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/Rawhide https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/Rawhide
- wcchandler 11y ago
  Rawhide's really only designed for testing, not anything "stable"
  - mattdm 11y ago
    Basically true, but if you don't mind the occasional hiccup, you can run it as your daily system. (I do — but I also keep another laptop handy with the latest stable release.) The most likely problems are simply dependencies getting out of sync, which results in a) updates not applying and b) an uninstallable nightly state — not actually a broken system. We're working (slowly — we've got a decade of inertia) on an automated system to move updates which break this consistency to a "side tag", so they can be worked on without breaking the main tree. And possibly in the future we can actually have a similar thing with automated functional testing (but... don't hold your breath). (Also, shout-out to openSUSE, where they're already doing a lot of this.) Of course, as with any "rolling release", you have "oh look, the UI of my software is different today".
  - groks 11y ago
    Not any more: http://www.scrye.com/wordpress/nirik/2015/09/18/rawhide-notes-from-the-trail-2015-09-18/ http://www.scrye.com/wordpress/nirik/2015/09/18/rawhide-note...
dice 11y ago

blinkingled 11y ago

Ongoing stability leaves a lot to be desired with Fedora. The utter disregard for bug reports and general aggression towards pushing untested bleeding edge broken updates with no equivalent of Ubuntu LTS means I'll stick to Ubuntu for a long time. I even donated to them recently.

rwmj 11y ago
CentOS is the "long term support" version of Fedora. RHEL / CentOS 7.0 was forked from Fedora 18/19. It is supported for 10 years.
- blinkingled 11y ago
  For servers that is fine - try installing CentOS on your newer laptop or workstation. Even if you did get it to install, the s/w stack is way too outdated. Between that and Fedora being the extreme, Ubuntu LTS is a well balanced choice for workstation/laptops - you get stack refreshes periodically with point releases and it is not so bleeding edge as to be unusable.
  - rwmj 11y ago
    Internally Red Hat gives every employee a laptop running RHEL 7 (it was RHEL 6 until quite recently). Also RHEL 7 version numbers don't necessarily reflect the upstream version of the software, since Red Hat actively backports major features and fixes.
  - jvoorhis 11y ago
    I've found CentOS 7 to be remarkably stable in recent laptop configurations. Main issues encountered were the odd package with hacky systemd integration.
  - cozzyd 11y ago
    EL7 is fairly up to date, I have no trouble running it on my workstation at work. EPEL helps too.
teh_klev 11y ago

WorldWideWayne 11y ago

I wish they'd stop copying the klunky OS X ui anti-patterns.

teh_klev 11y ago
Well install a different front end, isn't that what the spirit of Linux, Freedom, etc is all about. They even make it easy for you: https://spins.fedoraproject.org/ https://spins.fedoraproject.org/
- keithpeter 11y ago
  I'm downloading the Workstation beta now mainly to have a look at Gnome 3.18. I have quite liked Gnome 3 since around 3.4 (used the Debian Wheezy manifestation). I can't seem to get on with KDE but that is probably just me. For the 'just do stuff' laptop, I find xfce4 reassuringly gradualist. I'm using version 4.10 with whisker-menu bound to Mod4-space, and with the panel brought down to the bottom of the screen. I hand this laptop to students who are used to Windows and they have no problems with the navigation at all. Slackware as underlying OS but almost any of the larger distros will package a full xfce4 desktop session.
  - teh_klev 11y ago
    I must give Gnome 3 another spin. I fell out of love with Gnome 3 whenever it popped up in Fedora 16? or 17? and switched to KDE 4 which I kinda like. I have a spare Dell Vostro 1720 laptop with a nice 1900x1200 display I can blow away and play with. My main machine is still Windows 7 (about to be 10) because I spend 50% of my day inside Visual Studio/SQL Server/IIS, and we still use Exchange (therefore Outlook) and Word...etc. Also for the life of me I still cannot get Fortigate's VPN client (essential because I'm a remote worker) to play nice with Linux yet, otherwise I'd probably switch and virtualise my Windows bits. I know the Linux OpenVPN stuff should work with our VPN hardware but I've never worked out which knobs to to dial, maybe a project for the weekend.
- WorldWideWayne 11y ago
  Thanks, but they obviously put all of their fine work into the Gnome front-end and using a different spin doesn't get you any of that. The number of customizations that need to be installed and maintained between updates to make this OS X-like abomination usable is ridiculous.

MichaelStubbs 11y ago

Reminder: if you want to be awesome, please help seed the torrents listed on http://torrents.fedoraproject.org/ http://torrents.fedoraproject.org/ - just set them up on my Scaleway seedbox.

mindcrime 11y ago

I run Fedora 22 with KDE Plasma on my Toshiba laptop and it's been great. The only real issue was a couple of the kernel releases did something weird to Java apps like Eclipse, Gephi, Cytoscape, etc. But the latest one works fine. Otherwise it just works, with the one small glitch that sometimes when I reboot, the icons on my desktop get rearranged for no apparent reason. In the grand scheme of things, I can live with that.

cozzyd 11y ago

I've been preupgrading/fedupping since 17 on my current computer with no major problems (although I usually wait a month or two to upgrade). I think every release has been an improvement.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]