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>Despite what media wants people to believe, may are sick and tired of political correctness and bending down to everyone's demands for anything. If you are an

• camelite 11y ago
  Google 'trump polls women'. Then reassess.
  • lsc 11y ago
    yeah, and I see a lot of references to how well he does among "GOP women" or women who vote republican already. That's a rather different sort, I think. (interestingly, I see a bunch of references to the idea that a reasonably large percentage of women identify as democrats.)
    • camelite 11y ago
      Still, a sizable number of women, correct? Do you agree they might already know they're people too, and like Trump for reasons other than "white rage" or being expected to treat women and minorities decently?
      • lsc 11y ago
        sure, that's possible. I'm just going off what I've seen of Trump. It smells a lot like identity/race politics to me. but if your point is that Trump might be deeper than he appears on the surface and I simply haven't done enough research, you very well could be correct; I haven't done a whole lot of research. One direction I could take my argument is to suggest that race politics goes deeper than economics, and that women can be racist, too. Another direction, is this idea of "identity politics" - this idea that if I see myself as the sort of person who votes for Trump for social or self-image reasons, that overrides any self-interest I may personally have in the matter, and maybe even what I think is right and just. but... talking about identity politics is hard, because it quickly becomes circular. If you believe it because your group believes it, why does your group believe it? I'm particularly poorly placed to understand identity politics in a respectful way, because part of my self-image is that I am the sort of person who doesn't pretend to agree with my friends; the sort of person who has friends who are different, who have different opinions. I mean, I'm sure this self-image is as flawed as anyone else's self-image, and you could poke holes in it all day, but this is my self image, and so the very idea of liking something because the group I identify with likes it seems... negative, perhaps in the same way that immigration seems negative to the trump voter.
• deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
  • Frondo 11y ago
    There is nothing bullying in the parent poster's comment.
    • lsc 11y ago
      I don't know about bullying... maybe? I certainly was ridiculing the viewpoint that political correctness has gone overboard. I personally think ridicule is the right response to that sort of complaint. My intent was to ridicule the idea, though, not the previous poster. Especially considering how the previous poster framed it as "some people think..." which is a less personal, and I think better way of arguing. I think my personal anecdotes (for example, where I mentioned that I work in an industry where I get a large advantage for being white and male) are a weakness of my debate style; they tend to make debates more personal, more emotional and, in my opinion, less interesting. I would argue that ridicule is different from bullying, especially when that ridicule is directed at an idea rather than at a person. But... I could also see how you could make the argument that ridiculing an idea is ridiculing the people who hold that idea. And ridiculing a person is certainly a component of bullying. So maybe it was bullying? But I also think of Bullying as a pattern of abuse directed towards a particular person, and I'm certainly not doing that I do have plenty of friends who are openly racist and/or sexist, and while I do ridicule their ideas (and yes, to their faces, I'm not afraid to call people out.) they're still friends, so make of that what you will.
  • lsc 11y ago
    I was able to understand that you were offended by my post, which is fine, but if I am to take it as a wake-up call, I am going to need to understand why you found it offensive.
• emp_zealoth 11y ago
  The issue is,you cant call rape a rape anymore, unless its drunk man having a sex with an equally drunk woman - then its PATRIARCHAL RAPE You cant even have a hard discussion without gagging one side. Its wrong. While republicans are pretty much cancer, the left seems growing incapable of dealing with reality,because it might offend someone
  • lsc 11y ago
    >While republicans are pretty much cancer, the left seems growing incapable of dealing with reality,because it might offend someone I'm the sort of person who thinks Nixon was a better president than JFK. The Republicans could field a decent president if they 1. recognized what a spectacular embarrassment and failure GWB was, and that we're not going to elect anyone who is remotely connected to him, and 2. quit letting the crazy wing of their party run things. I mean, there are crazies on both sides, but when it comes time to elect a president, you pick a centrist you think might be acceptable to the other side, too. But that aside, yeah, I just don't see how asking you to use one word instead of another to describe a person or a group makes you gagged or incapable of dealing with reality.
    • venomsnake 11y ago
      >But that aside, yeah, I just don't see how asking you to use one word instead of another to describe a person or a group makes you gagged or incapable of dealing with reality. Take PR 101. Never leave the other side in control of the narrative. If you play by left branding rules, you will lose.
      • lsc 11y ago
        >Take PR 101. Never leave the other side in control of the narrative. If you play by left branding rules, you will lose. You realize, of course, that this idea that the connotation matters more than denotation is a "science" that, historically speaking, has generally been associated with the left: a association which, if I considered myself a leftist, I would find quite insulting. Those sorts of attitudes are a big part of what drove me away from the left in my late teens, in fact. (the rest was, well, mostly that I was making a lot of money; it's hard not to be a libertarian at 19; way more so when you are making lots of money.) Barthes was an interesting writer, sure, and he brought up some interesting points, but like most leftists of his era, (ok, to be fair, just about everyone of his era.) he vastly underestimated the complexity of the human brain. The problem with relying too heavily on semiotics is that it's pretty obvious; and it's really easy to sound like you are trying too hard to manipulate your audience; something most of us find pretty offensive. The other problem is that the connotation of a particular word varies quite a lot on the cultural background of the speaker; so while semiotics can work to whip up people who are like you and agree with you, it's unlikely to work well when speaking to a group of people from diverse backgrounds.
• seivan 11y ago
  Sorry, I completely misunderstood you. I apologise. I chalk it up to pre-coffee, early morning + Poe's Law.
• flipcoder 11y ago
  "Please consider that women are humans too, you know, if it's not too much trouble" No one is arguing against this in particular. Conservatives believe women are human. They're also not all white males. I really hope I do not have to cite sources on this.
  • Rusky 11y ago
    Maybe not explicitly, but conservative policies are often biased against women and/or minorities.
    • jazzyk 11y ago
      I hate to be this guy, but: citation needed. You just can't make such a sweeping claim without at least giving examples.
      • Lawtonfogle 11y ago
        Even deeper is a discussion of what counts as being biased against a gender/race. Is supporting child support policies biased against men because men are more often to end up in jail for not paying? Is supporting abortion bans bias against women because women are more often to end up in jail for seeking an abortion anyways? Is supporting university affirmative action being anti-minority because they hurt Asians? Is opposing university affirmative action being anti-minority because they help African Americans? Asking for citations has, from what I've seen in the past, ended with people giving citations of what they think constitute a bias that the other side doesn't consider a bias.
    • SamReidHughes 11y ago
      So are liberal policies. Often they involve limiting women's and minorities' freedom of contract, and that can be a double-edged sword.
  • lsc 11y ago
    You're taking this out of context. Let me put it back into context by quoting myself: >I mean, sure, I laugh at those who have this 'white rage' for complaining that we, as white men, are now expected to treat other people with a base level of respect (as that, at root, is the intent of political correctness.) At least where I live, this expectation is phrased more like "Please consider that women are humans too, you know, if it's not too much trouble" In other words, my experience of 'political correctness' is being paid, every now and again, to watch amateurish videos that boil down to the message "Please consider that women are humans too, you know, if it's not too much trouble" You can see how this would color my opinion of the people who complain that "political correctness has gone overboard" It's possible that there are times and places where political correctness really is oppressive; Considering my life experience, though, I find that to be pretty unlikely, but who knows.
• aeris 11y ago
  You PC too, bro?
  • lsc 11y ago
    maybe. sometimes. I can kind of be a dick, other times. Mostly, though, I think the idea that "we are sick and tired of political correctness" should be ridiculed in the same ways and for the same reasons that I'll make fun of co-workers who complain about a variance in the (usually excellent) free food and booze that we're given on an all but daily basis.