4 ms·

Ugh this is the bane of my life. We use basecamp, hipchat, Skype, Skype for business, email and google hangouts all at once. My kids use hangouts, WhatsApp, Fac

by buffoon 11y ago

Ugh this is the bane of my life. We use basecamp, hipchat, Skype, Skype for business, email and google hangouts all at once. My kids use hangouts, WhatsApp, Facebook messenger. None of them work properly. None of them has everyone on it. None of them add any value to communication. All of them throw ten minutes to the wind finding everyone to start with. I've missed 20 minutes of many meetings dealing with audio problems, network problems and firewall problems when we could have used a simple dial in conference system that has been around for over 10 years. And I'm treated like a Luddite because you have to call me, SMS me or email me?!? I don't want this any more. After a rant yesterday about WiFi and how it sucks and I've switched back to wired ethernet. I have to suggest that there was a technological singularity around 2005 which was 'peak utility' before the proliferation of sharecropped communications, technology with false utility, high cost and pay-per-everything. To add other things to this problem set is going to cost me more money and time of which both are finite and at least one runs out uncontrollably.

voltagex_ 11y ago
One of the things I was hoping would take off was SIP: URIs - in theory you could "dial" my email address and the call would be routed to wherever I was at that moment. Texting is built in too. Goddamn standards strike again.
- buffoon 11y ago
  Yeah that was a great idea. Until NAT, firewalls, your average contracted out MSP at an SME sysadmin who's idea of admin is lock everything down and pay £300 to open a port (I have to deal with this at least one a week).
  - voltagex_ 11y ago
    If normal Skype supported SIP it could just be bounced to Skype in that case. Also, IPv6 FTW!
    - buffoon 11y ago
      Yes that's true although I've lost count of the hours I've thrown out on Skype. Yes IPv6 definitely FTW. We just migrated our office and two data centres to it. Life is good now. V6 firewalls are just packet filters; all our nets are in the public address space.
      - simoncion 11y ago
        Stupid question: Just in case you want some nets to not be globally routeable, you guys are aware of the Unique Local Addressing block?
        buffoon 11y ago
        Yes aware of that. There are some gotchas with that, particularly address space collision between two sites with a tunnel between them. I've never seen one in v6 but one of our clients had a 10.0.0.0/8 and so did we and I don't want to get into that state of affairs again. I'd only use that for totally airgapped networks.
        simoncion 11y ago
        There's a mechanism for randomly generating a /48 with a low probability of collision. [0] SixXS maintains a list of "allocated" prefixes, [1][2] but who knows how complete it is? Edit: Also, you might be interested in reading about the NETMAP iptables/ip6tables target. See iptables-extensions(8) for more info. [0] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4193#section-3.2 https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4193#section-3.2 [1] https://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/ula/ https://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/ula/ [2] https://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/ula/list/ https://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/ula/list/
        sanderjd 11y ago
        You seem to know a lot about this so I thought I'd ask: is there a good book getting into this level of detail about IPv6?
  - simoncion 11y ago
    uPnP/NAT-PMP pretty much solves the NAT problem, for the home user. :) I'm having difficulty parsing your second sentence. So, I'll say this: If you're a tech business and can't manage to cost-effectively manage the settings on your border equipment, you're doing something really wrong. :)
    - buffoon 11y ago
      Sorry my bad. You got the point though. You'd be surprised how many messes there are out there. I tripped over a whole network of unpatched windows XP sp1 machines the other day.
      - simoncion 11y ago
        I'm not sure I got the point. Were you trying to say that before NAT, businesses contracted out to vaguely-competent third-parties who charged an arm and a leg for changes to firewall configuration?
        buffoon 11y ago
        No I'm saying that still they do that today and always have done. UPnP is always off. And that's £300 and a service case open to turn it on. Then a 48 hour turnaround. MSP=Managed Service Provider. Basically rip off merchants who charge you for everything because you are trying to run a business with the tech rather than run an operations team.
iraphael 11y ago
It seems like you're saying that Technology has passed the "Second Watershed". http://www.preservenet.com/theory/Illich/IllichTools.html http://www.preservenet.com/theory/Illich/IllichTools.html "Watershed (figurative definition, as used by Illich): A point in the historical process when a particular “tool” creates a quantum shift in society, like the sudden application of gravity feeding water into a terrain basin (literal watershed)."[0] [0] http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4598832 http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=...
sliverstorm 11y ago
WiFi is a great win, I think. The problem is just that we have allowed ourselves to think it is a complete solution. That everything should be wireless, that wired has no advantages. In reality WiFi and ethernet complement eachother, each with their own strengths. In particular, I've found a 10Mb LAN outperforms a 1000Mb WiFi for networked filesystem access.
exodust 11y ago
Might your issue with WIFI be specific to your setup than a problem with WIFI itself? I replied to your comment yesterday, but just how noisy can WIFI get anyway? There's a finite number of people who can live within 50 metres of our homes. So there's a limit to how noisy it can be. I'm saying this because I have no issues with WIFI in a cluttered inner-city suburb full of WIFI. I just got myself a good WIFI modem router, and it's smooth and no drop-outs for multiple users in the house. Nobody expects super reliable HD video to stream through without ever glitching, but it actually does a good job of that anyway using Netflix, Youtube, and Chromecast and other methods like iPads. I would suggest getting a better router, and making sure other factors are set correctly to maximise signal strength rather than blaming WIFI. Location of the router, whether you use a range extender and so on.
- buffoon 11y ago
  I've had inssider running, channel hopped, tried three different routers (netgear, router board, Asus) to no avail. I've tried several client devices too from high end centrino, apple and Motorola kit. I don't stream any media, just do file copies. It sucks whatever I try.

by buffoon 11y ago

voltagex_ 11y ago

One of the things I was hoping would take off was SIP: URIs - in theory you could "dial" my email address and the call would be routed to wherever I was at that moment. Texting is built in too. Goddamn standards strike again.

buffoon 11y ago
Yeah that was a great idea. Until NAT, firewalls, your average contracted out MSP at an SME sysadmin who's idea of admin is lock everything down and pay £300 to open a port (I have to deal with this at least one a week).
- voltagex_ 11y ago
  If normal Skype supported SIP it could just be bounced to Skype in that case. Also, IPv6 FTW!
  - buffoon 11y ago
    Yes that's true although I've lost count of the hours I've thrown out on Skype. Yes IPv6 definitely FTW. We just migrated our office and two data centres to it. Life is good now. V6 firewalls are just packet filters; all our nets are in the public address space.
    - simoncion 11y ago
      Stupid question: Just in case you want some nets to not be globally routeable, you guys are aware of the Unique Local Addressing block?
      - buffoon 11y ago
        Yes aware of that. There are some gotchas with that, particularly address space collision between two sites with a tunnel between them. I've never seen one in v6 but one of our clients had a 10.0.0.0/8 and so did we and I don't want to get into that state of affairs again. I'd only use that for totally airgapped networks.
        simoncion 11y ago
        There's a mechanism for randomly generating a /48 with a low probability of collision. [0] SixXS maintains a list of "allocated" prefixes, [1][2] but who knows how complete it is? Edit: Also, you might be interested in reading about the NETMAP iptables/ip6tables target. See iptables-extensions(8) for more info. [0] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4193#section-3.2 https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4193#section-3.2 [1] https://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/ula/ https://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/ula/ [2] https://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/ula/list/ https://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/ula/list/
        sanderjd 11y ago
        You seem to know a lot about this so I thought I'd ask: is there a good book getting into this level of detail about IPv6?
- simoncion 11y ago
  uPnP/NAT-PMP pretty much solves the NAT problem, for the home user. :) I'm having difficulty parsing your second sentence. So, I'll say this: If you're a tech business and can't manage to cost-effectively manage the settings on your border equipment, you're doing something really wrong. :)
  - buffoon 11y ago
    Sorry my bad. You got the point though. You'd be surprised how many messes there are out there. I tripped over a whole network of unpatched windows XP sp1 machines the other day.
    - simoncion 11y ago
      I'm not sure I got the point. Were you trying to say that before NAT, businesses contracted out to vaguely-competent third-parties who charged an arm and a leg for changes to firewall configuration?
      - buffoon 11y ago
        No I'm saying that still they do that today and always have done. UPnP is always off. And that's £300 and a service case open to turn it on. Then a 48 hour turnaround. MSP=Managed Service Provider. Basically rip off merchants who charge you for everything because you are trying to run a business with the tech rather than run an operations team.

iraphael 11y ago

It seems like you're saying that Technology has passed the "Second Watershed". http://www.preservenet.com/theory/Illich/IllichTools.html http://www.preservenet.com/theory/Illich/IllichTools.html "Watershed (figurative definition, as used by Illich): A point in the historical process when a particular “tool” creates a quantum shift in society, like the sudden application of gravity feeding water into a terrain basin (literal watershed)."[0] [0] http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4598832 http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=...

sliverstorm 11y ago

WiFi is a great win, I think. The problem is just that we have allowed ourselves to think it is a complete solution. That everything should be wireless, that wired has no advantages. In reality WiFi and ethernet complement eachother, each with their own strengths. In particular, I've found a 10Mb LAN outperforms a 1000Mb WiFi for networked filesystem access.

exodust 11y ago

Might your issue with WIFI be specific to your setup than a problem with WIFI itself? I replied to your comment yesterday, but just how noisy can WIFI get anyway? There's a finite number of people who can live within 50 metres of our homes. So there's a limit to how noisy it can be. I'm saying this because I have no issues with WIFI in a cluttered inner-city suburb full of WIFI. I just got myself a good WIFI modem router, and it's smooth and no drop-outs for multiple users in the house. Nobody expects super reliable HD video to stream through without ever glitching, but it actually does a good job of that anyway using Netflix, Youtube, and Chromecast and other methods like iPads. I would suggest getting a better router, and making sure other factors are set correctly to maximise signal strength rather than blaming WIFI. Location of the router, whether you use a range extender and so on.

buffoon 11y ago
I've had inssider running, channel hopped, tried three different routers (netgear, router board, Asus) to no avail. I've tried several client devices too from high end centrino, apple and Motorola kit. I don't stream any media, just do file copies. It sucks whatever I try.