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We can push this further and expect your "reality test" to become practically useless some time in the next 50 years. That is, when no matter how well you analy

by chm 11y ago

We can push this further and expect your "reality test" to become practically useless some time in the next 50 years. That is, when no matter how well you analyze a video/picture, you can not tell if it is CG or not. What happens when, in the next 150 years say, one cannot identify with appreciable probability [1] whether someone is human or not? [1]: À la Turing test, but with a humanoid robot.

sandworm101 11y ago
Something standing in front of me that cannot be scientifically proven not to be human, would be a human. A robot that accurate down to the microscopic may be a synthetically-grown human but nevertheless still a human being. CGI will always be behind the curve. Science requires repeatability by independent researchers. A CGI hoax cannot survive independent footage of the event. So CGI cannot survive scientific scrutiny. It can certainly survive fake scrutiny (see viral vids) but not real investigation by people looking for the hoax.
- EGreg 11y ago
  I think all our current systems (democracy, laws, courts, basic trust) rely on human level attackers who can't adapt quickly enough to beat the system every time. But I think that in the future many of these assumptions will be overturned and our systems will literally be fooled by AI. Your expectations of what AI will not be able to produce via "hacking" our systems and expectations will be far surpassed. And then what do we do? Simple short term example: how do our current political systems prevent the proliferation of rogue drones programmed by completely anonymous individuals to wreak havoc? Or computer viruses? We are just relying on the absence of a capable adversary, same as with security by obscurity.
- chm 11y ago
  Consider this scenario: You're walking down the street and a small woman walks past you and stumbles. You help her up and she says thanks, then gets back on her way. How can you "scientifically" prove whether she was a human or not? Of course you could put her on an operating table and cut her open... but she moves and breathes and feels everything as a human. How could you force that treatment upon her? And then you'd have to do it for everybody else. How do you know the surgeon isn't a humanoid robot? How do you know you're not a robot yourself?
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
dalke 11y ago
Consider than in 150 years there may be several hundred videos of something happening, from a variety of angles, where the devices are controlled by multiple, independent agents. While one stream can be faked, it would require large-scale collusion or subversion to fake the large majority of videos.

by chm 11y ago

sandworm101 11y ago

Something standing in front of me that cannot be scientifically proven not to be human, would be a human. A robot that accurate down to the microscopic may be a synthetically-grown human but nevertheless still a human being. CGI will always be behind the curve. Science requires repeatability by independent researchers. A CGI hoax cannot survive independent footage of the event. So CGI cannot survive scientific scrutiny. It can certainly survive fake scrutiny (see viral vids) but not real investigation by people looking for the hoax.

EGreg 11y ago
I think all our current systems (democracy, laws, courts, basic trust) rely on human level attackers who can't adapt quickly enough to beat the system every time. But I think that in the future many of these assumptions will be overturned and our systems will literally be fooled by AI. Your expectations of what AI will not be able to produce via "hacking" our systems and expectations will be far surpassed. And then what do we do? Simple short term example: how do our current political systems prevent the proliferation of rogue drones programmed by completely anonymous individuals to wreak havoc? Or computer viruses? We are just relying on the absence of a capable adversary, same as with security by obscurity.
chm 11y ago
Consider this scenario: You're walking down the street and a small woman walks past you and stumbles. You help her up and she says thanks, then gets back on her way. How can you "scientifically" prove whether she was a human or not? Of course you could put her on an operating table and cut her open... but she moves and breathes and feels everything as a human. How could you force that treatment upon her? And then you'd have to do it for everybody else. How do you know the surgeon isn't a humanoid robot? How do you know you're not a robot yourself?
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

dalke 11y ago

Consider than in 150 years there may be several hundred videos of something happening, from a variety of angles, where the devices are controlled by multiple, independent agents. While one stream can be faked, it would require large-scale collusion or subversion to fake the large majority of videos.