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Yeah, there is a gun problem in this country and this is a terribly flawed analogy.

by feld 11y ago

aianus 11y ago
A random American has a 1/10,000 chance of dying to a gun this year. Half of them are suicides. Hardly a 'gun problem' worthy of banning guns. I have a higher chance of crashing my motorcycle and dying that way, do you support banning motorcycles too?
- eponeponepon 11y ago
  ...and what're the odds globally of a random person dying from a gunshot? I could ask about specific other nations with different firearms laws, but let's start with the general case.
  - aianus 11y ago
    I'm from Canada and it's not illegal or particularly difficult to own firearms yet our rate of gun violence is about 7x less than the US. Sounds like there is a separate, bigger problem in the US besides the legality of firearms and plenty of progress can be made without going nuts and banning firearm ownership (or open-source radio firmware) outright.
- scrollaway 11y ago
  If you're going to lecture someone on numbers, at least get your arguments right. 1. You should separately account for "random Americans" and americans that actually own guns. I, too, would have a higher chance of crashing my motorcycle... if only I owned a one. 2. Vehicular transportation is a worldwide leading cause of death. It is a problem that is defining the beginning of the 21st century, what with self-driving autos and all. You're setting a pattern in bad analogies. 3. Do you enjoy having that extra 1 in 10k? Do you realize it's really not that high? By your already-biased numbers, there's a 3% chance that someone in your non-gun-owning household of 5 will die with more holes in their body than they were born with.
  - aianus 11y ago
    > You should separately account for "random Americans" and americans that actually own guns. Yes, but I'm overstating the risk to parent by choosing random Americans vs. Americans who own guns. This is fine because it helps my argument the least. Consider that someone who is anti-gun like parent can easily choose not to have a gun in his home and further reduce his risk without the need for legislation. > Vehicular transportation is a worldwide leading cause of death. It is a problem that is defining the beginning of the 21st century, what with self-driving autos and all. You're setting a pattern in bad analogies. I don't understand what you're saying here. > Do you enjoy having that extra 1 in 10k? No, but I find it preferable to gun control (or the regulation in the article or any other kind of pre-emptive legislation against crimes that haven't even happened yet).
- Steko 11y ago
  You throw the number (1/10,000 chance) like it's low but I think that's fairly high. You cite crashing motorcycles but the total US deaths by traffic accidents was close to 1/10,000 in the most recent years [1]. You ask if we want to ban motorcycles but motorcyles aren't used to murder people, we ban or heavily regulate lots of things that are more generally harmful (explosives, lead, asbestos, radium, DDT, CFCs, etc.) many of which caused fewer deaths than firearms when they were legal. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_in_U.S._by_year https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_i...
  - aianus 11y ago
    Firearms are not generally used to murder people, they're generally used to poke holes in suspended pieces of paper or look pretty or make the owner feel safe or hunt animals. They're very rarely used to murder people relative to their other uses.
    - Steko 11y ago
      Not sure where you think I claimed that the only or chief use of firearms was to murder people. The main use of lead, asbestos and DDT were also not to cause health problems but they were still banned. OTOH firearms are overwhelmingly the most common way people get murdered in the US today, so to say they're 'rarely used to murder people' is to only look at the question from one side.
jakeogh 11y ago
Are you pro DRM? Are we going to ban open source 3D fab tools too? They will only improve. DMLS can print a 1911.

Yeah, there is a gun problem in this country and this is a terribly flawed analogy.

by feld 11y ago

Yeah, there is a gun problem in this country and this is a terribly flawed analogy.

A random American has a 1/10,000 chance of dying to a gun this year. Half of them are suicides. Hardly a 'gun problem' worthy of banning guns. I have a higher chance of crashing my motorcycle and dying that way, do you support banning motorcycles too?

eponeponepon 11y ago
...and what're the odds globally of a random person dying from a gunshot? I could ask about specific other nations with different firearms laws, but let's start with the general case.
- aianus 11y ago
  I'm from Canada and it's not illegal or particularly difficult to own firearms yet our rate of gun violence is about 7x less than the US. Sounds like there is a separate, bigger problem in the US besides the legality of firearms and plenty of progress can be made without going nuts and banning firearm ownership (or open-source radio firmware) outright.
scrollaway 11y ago
If you're going to lecture someone on numbers, at least get your arguments right. 1. You should separately account for "random Americans" and americans that actually own guns. I, too, would have a higher chance of crashing my motorcycle... if only I owned a one. 2. Vehicular transportation is a worldwide leading cause of death. It is a problem that is defining the beginning of the 21st century, what with self-driving autos and all. You're setting a pattern in bad analogies. 3. Do you enjoy having that extra 1 in 10k? Do you realize it's really not that high? By your already-biased numbers, there's a 3% chance that someone in your non-gun-owning household of 5 will die with more holes in their body than they were born with.
- aianus 11y ago
  > You should separately account for "random Americans" and americans that actually own guns. Yes, but I'm overstating the risk to parent by choosing random Americans vs. Americans who own guns. This is fine because it helps my argument the least. Consider that someone who is anti-gun like parent can easily choose not to have a gun in his home and further reduce his risk without the need for legislation. > Vehicular transportation is a worldwide leading cause of death. It is a problem that is defining the beginning of the 21st century, what with self-driving autos and all. You're setting a pattern in bad analogies. I don't understand what you're saying here. > Do you enjoy having that extra 1 in 10k? No, but I find it preferable to gun control (or the regulation in the article or any other kind of pre-emptive legislation against crimes that haven't even happened yet).
Steko 11y ago
You throw the number (1/10,000 chance) like it's low but I think that's fairly high. You cite crashing motorcycles but the total US deaths by traffic accidents was close to 1/10,000 in the most recent years [1]. You ask if we want to ban motorcycles but motorcyles aren't used to murder people, we ban or heavily regulate lots of things that are more generally harmful (explosives, lead, asbestos, radium, DDT, CFCs, etc.) many of which caused fewer deaths than firearms when they were legal. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_in_U.S._by_year https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_i...
- aianus 11y ago
  Firearms are not generally used to murder people, they're generally used to poke holes in suspended pieces of paper or look pretty or make the owner feel safe or hunt animals. They're very rarely used to murder people relative to their other uses.
  - Steko 11y ago
    Not sure where you think I claimed that the only or chief use of firearms was to murder people. The main use of lead, asbestos and DDT were also not to cause health problems but they were still banned. OTOH firearms are overwhelmingly the most common way people get murdered in the US today, so to say they're 'rarely used to murder people' is to only look at the question from one side.

jakeogh 11y ago

Are you pro DRM? Are we going to ban open source 3D fab tools too? They will only improve. DMLS can print a 1911.