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> it's completely unrelated to anything related to the coordinated harassment campaign aimed at Zoe Quinn. That is my point. GamerGate isn't about harassment,

> it's completely unrelated to anything related to the coordinated harassment campaign aimed at Zoe Quinn. That is my point. GamerGate isn't about harassment, it's about media, censorship, journalism, centralized vs. decentralized control and a bunch of other stuff.

eropple 11y ago
No, it's not. Don't get me wrong: I am certain that you believe that. I am not calling you a liar. But you're wrong. The core of GamerGate is the same bunch of misogynistic tools who have been around for years, occasionally manifesting into a herpetic flare-up somewhere or other before going away again for a while. (They didn't come from 4chan, but they incubated there.) Guys like Milo Yiannopolous don't give a shit about video games, they give a shit about hurting women, and you are useful by proxy. The rhetoric about ethics-in-journalism-etcetera-etcetera sounds nice, and in it you and I can find a bunch to agree with. But it doesn't matter. Because the actions are what matter, and the actions are fucking reprehensible. Please don't insult my intelligence with false equivalencies and but-but-but-both-sides because but-but-but-both-sides is not true. None of the misogynistic toolbags have been chased from their homes, none of them have been confronted with credible threats to their lives and their families. It has not happened. The notion that it has is fictional at its core. The reason GamerGate functionally evaporated as quickly as it showed up, aside from particularly die-hard members of the useful-idiot troupe, is because most of your fellows went away once Stephen Colbert made fun of you. There's a reason why the influential string-pullers have been saying things like "give up and try again next year". Because they don't care about what you care about. The social credibility went away, and as soon as the social credibility went away that hard core couldn't do what they wanted to do with your help. In the process of supporting their movement in the hopes that you get something out of it, you are hurting the defenseless. I hope you stop.
- exstudent2 11y ago
  I think you're conflating hurting women and fighting feminism. They are not the same thing. I'm not a feminist but that doesn't mean I'm a misogynist. It just means I don't agree with the tactics and politics employed by feminists (as a political group). I can't speak for everyone in GG, but I think my opinion is shared with others. > None of the misogynistic toolbags have been chased from their homes, none of them have been confronted with credible threats to their lives and their families. It has not happened. The notion that it has is fictional at its core. No one has had this happen to them. No one has been arrested on either side of GamerGate. There's no "credible threat" to anyone involved. The fiction you say exists on GG is evident in your own argument as well. No one is credibly being threatened.
  - eropple 11y ago
    I'm not conflating anything. I know the hard core of your movement. They are not new people to me. Their agendas are not hidden--and they're not even hidden within the noxious little vortex that you're chilling in, you just don't want to see it. Spend a little time amongst your buds where they think nobody's looking, like 8chan, and you'll get it. (Oh, but they're not "the real GamerGate", I am always assured. Except that they're the straw that actually stirs the drink...because the rest are useful idiots.) And for reals, nobody has had this happen? I've had a friend crash on my couch after your fellow travelers have doxxed her, emailed her pictures of her house, and said that they'd come to her house and "slit [her] throat like a pig." So you can turn this sideways and insert it back where it belongs.
    - exstudent2 11y ago
      I'm not sure which boogeyman you're fighting but since you're talking to me all I can say is that I've never threatened anyone and never would (shouldn't even need to be said). Honestly, your condescending tone, immaturity and personal attacks are things I can't get on-board with. Being righteously indignant doesn't help you make your case.
      - eropple 11y ago
        Yes, I am righteously indignant. It is a fitting response to the sort of banal cruelty that permits evil to fester in its name. You have adopted as your fellow travelers people who use you to execute their openly misogynistic agendas and you have insulated yourself within their epistemic closure to avoid answering to the fallout of what the people you help have done. Your "but I'd never do that" is thus irrelevant and frankly just sad, because giving cover to monsters makes you culpable. You choose, with open eyes and of free will, to help people hurt the defenseless, to hurt my friends. I can point at the people you hurt. They exist, in a way the shadows of fearful minds just don't. You are being a bad person. You should stop. But you won't, because to acknowledge one's own wrongdoings requires a sternness of character that is missing in some quarters of the human race, and no small amount of my own anger is at myself for believing I can change those who are too happy to be comfortable in their positions of power.
comrh 11y ago
You can keep saying that but it has a long, well documented history of harassment. It might be about those other things too but I strongly feel that name has been poisoned beyond recovery.

eropple 11y ago

No, it's not. Don't get me wrong: I am certain that you believe that. I am not calling you a liar. But you're wrong. The core of GamerGate is the same bunch of misogynistic tools who have been around for years, occasionally manifesting into a herpetic flare-up somewhere or other before going away again for a while. (They didn't come from 4chan, but they incubated there.) Guys like Milo Yiannopolous don't give a shit about video games, they give a shit about hurting women, and you are useful by proxy. The rhetoric about ethics-in-journalism-etcetera-etcetera sounds nice, and in it you and I can find a bunch to agree with. But it doesn't matter. Because the actions are what matter, and the actions are fucking reprehensible. Please don't insult my intelligence with false equivalencies and but-but-but-both-sides because but-but-but-both-sides is not true. None of the misogynistic toolbags have been chased from their homes, none of them have been confronted with credible threats to their lives and their families. It has not happened. The notion that it has is fictional at its core. The reason GamerGate functionally evaporated as quickly as it showed up, aside from particularly die-hard members of the useful-idiot troupe, is because most of your fellows went away once Stephen Colbert made fun of you. There's a reason why the influential string-pullers have been saying things like "give up and try again next year". Because they don't care about what you care about. The social credibility went away, and as soon as the social credibility went away that hard core couldn't do what they wanted to do with your help. In the process of supporting their movement in the hopes that you get something out of it, you are hurting the defenseless. I hope you stop.

exstudent2 11y ago
I think you're conflating hurting women and fighting feminism. They are not the same thing. I'm not a feminist but that doesn't mean I'm a misogynist. It just means I don't agree with the tactics and politics employed by feminists (as a political group). I can't speak for everyone in GG, but I think my opinion is shared with others. > None of the misogynistic toolbags have been chased from their homes, none of them have been confronted with credible threats to their lives and their families. It has not happened. The notion that it has is fictional at its core. No one has had this happen to them. No one has been arrested on either side of GamerGate. There's no "credible threat" to anyone involved. The fiction you say exists on GG is evident in your own argument as well. No one is credibly being threatened.
- eropple 11y ago
  I'm not conflating anything. I know the hard core of your movement. They are not new people to me. Their agendas are not hidden--and they're not even hidden within the noxious little vortex that you're chilling in, you just don't want to see it. Spend a little time amongst your buds where they think nobody's looking, like 8chan, and you'll get it. (Oh, but they're not "the real GamerGate", I am always assured. Except that they're the straw that actually stirs the drink...because the rest are useful idiots.) And for reals, nobody has had this happen? I've had a friend crash on my couch after your fellow travelers have doxxed her, emailed her pictures of her house, and said that they'd come to her house and "slit [her] throat like a pig." So you can turn this sideways and insert it back where it belongs.
  - exstudent2 11y ago
    I'm not sure which boogeyman you're fighting but since you're talking to me all I can say is that I've never threatened anyone and never would (shouldn't even need to be said). Honestly, your condescending tone, immaturity and personal attacks are things I can't get on-board with. Being righteously indignant doesn't help you make your case.
    - eropple 11y ago
      Yes, I am righteously indignant. It is a fitting response to the sort of banal cruelty that permits evil to fester in its name. You have adopted as your fellow travelers people who use you to execute their openly misogynistic agendas and you have insulated yourself within their epistemic closure to avoid answering to the fallout of what the people you help have done. Your "but I'd never do that" is thus irrelevant and frankly just sad, because giving cover to monsters makes you culpable. You choose, with open eyes and of free will, to help people hurt the defenseless, to hurt my friends. I can point at the people you hurt. They exist, in a way the shadows of fearful minds just don't. You are being a bad person. You should stop. But you won't, because to acknowledge one's own wrongdoings requires a sternness of character that is missing in some quarters of the human race, and no small amount of my own anger is at myself for believing I can change those who are too happy to be comfortable in their positions of power.

comrh 11y ago

You can keep saying that but it has a long, well documented history of harassment. It might be about those other things too but I strongly feel that name has been poisoned beyond recovery.