5 ms·

Here's Kotaku EIC Stephen Totilo admitting to Kotaku's ethical failures re: GamerGate. https://archive.is/4Tp9N#selection-7679.0-7679.603 https://archive.is/4T

Here's Kotaku EIC Stephen Totilo admitting to Kotaku's ethical failures re: GamerGate. https://archive.is/4Tp9N#selection-7679.0-7679.603 https://archive.is/4Tp9N#selection-7679.0-7679.603 He's downplaying it but the failures to disclose personal ties DID exist in many cases. He also references other ethical failings from Kotaku. None of this would have come to light without GamerGate. They regularly make references to pre-existing relationships now. Note that this is a pretty important statement from Totilo but he makes it in the form of a comment. Many in GamerGate did appreciate him taking some form of responsibility though.

eropple 11y ago
Those goalposts are heavy, aren't they? I mean, that's interesting, but it's completely unrelated to anything related to the coordinated harassment campaign aimed at Zoe Quinn. So what's your point, exactly? Don't get me wrong: I love you guys. You have made "SJW" a desirable thing to be. I'm just not big on this whole dishonesty kick.
- exstudent2 11y ago
  > it's completely unrelated to anything related to the coordinated harassment campaign aimed at Zoe Quinn. That is my point. GamerGate isn't about harassment, it's about media, censorship, journalism, centralized vs. decentralized control and a bunch of other stuff.
  - eropple 11y ago
    No, it's not. Don't get me wrong: I am certain that you believe that. I am not calling you a liar. But you're wrong. The core of GamerGate is the same bunch of misogynistic tools who have been around for years, occasionally manifesting into a herpetic flare-up somewhere or other before going away again for a while. (They didn't come from 4chan, but they incubated there.) Guys like Milo Yiannopolous don't give a shit about video games, they give a shit about hurting women, and you are useful by proxy. The rhetoric about ethics-in-journalism-etcetera-etcetera sounds nice, and in it you and I can find a bunch to agree with. But it doesn't matter. Because the actions are what matter, and the actions are fucking reprehensible. Please don't insult my intelligence with false equivalencies and but-but-but-both-sides because but-but-but-both-sides is not true. None of the misogynistic toolbags have been chased from their homes, none of them have been confronted with credible threats to their lives and their families. It has not happened. The notion that it has is fictional at its core. The reason GamerGate functionally evaporated as quickly as it showed up, aside from particularly die-hard members of the useful-idiot troupe, is because most of your fellows went away once Stephen Colbert made fun of you. There's a reason why the influential string-pullers have been saying things like "give up and try again next year". Because they don't care about what you care about. The social credibility went away, and as soon as the social credibility went away that hard core couldn't do what they wanted to do with your help. In the process of supporting their movement in the hopes that you get something out of it, you are hurting the defenseless. I hope you stop.
    - exstudent2 11y ago
      I think you're conflating hurting women and fighting feminism. They are not the same thing. I'm not a feminist but that doesn't mean I'm a misogynist. It just means I don't agree with the tactics and politics employed by feminists (as a political group). I can't speak for everyone in GG, but I think my opinion is shared with others. > None of the misogynistic toolbags have been chased from their homes, none of them have been confronted with credible threats to their lives and their families. It has not happened. The notion that it has is fictional at its core. No one has had this happen to them. No one has been arrested on either side of GamerGate. There's no "credible threat" to anyone involved. The fiction you say exists on GG is evident in your own argument as well. No one is credibly being threatened.
      - eropple 11y ago
        I'm not conflating anything. I know the hard core of your movement. They are not new people to me. Their agendas are not hidden--and they're not even hidden within the noxious little vortex that you're chilling in, you just don't want to see it. Spend a little time amongst your buds where they think nobody's looking, like 8chan, and you'll get it. (Oh, but they're not "the real GamerGate", I am always assured. Except that they're the straw that actually stirs the drink...because the rest are useful idiots.) And for reals, nobody has had this happen? I've had a friend crash on my couch after your fellow travelers have doxxed her, emailed her pictures of her house, and said that they'd come to her house and "slit [her] throat like a pig." So you can turn this sideways and insert it back where it belongs.
        exstudent2 11y ago
        I'm not sure which boogeyman you're fighting but since you're talking to me all I can say is that I've never threatened anyone and never would (shouldn't even need to be said). Honestly, your condescending tone, immaturity and personal attacks are things I can't get on-board with. Being righteously indignant doesn't help you make your case.
        11y ago
  - comrh 11y ago
    You can keep saying that but it has a long, well documented history of harassment. It might be about those other things too but I strongly feel that name has been poisoned beyond recovery.
DrPizza 11y ago
> None of this would have come to light without GamerGate. Including the stuff in his comment that happened before GamerGate and was widely known about and reported on before GamerGate? "None of this" indeed. Oh, and Totilo doesn't describe any kind of compromising relationship between Quinn and any of his writers, which merely underscores the fundamentally dishonest basis of the entire "movement". "ethics in games journalism" was always a pretext for "attack Zoe Quinn", which is why you idiots continue to bitch about "oh gosh someone in the games industry knows someone else" and not, you know, "major games publishers won't deal with critical outlets" or "major games publishers try to break through the Chinese wall between editorial and advertising by holding outlets hostage" or "non-disclosure of advertising funded by major publishers is routine on YouTube" or "the games industry is fundamentally corrupted by the widespread use of pre-orders rendering titles immune to reviews or even basic quality control" or "major publishers routinely use death marches, even though this is detrimental to both game quality and programmer wellbeing" or all sorts of other issues that actually matter worth a damn. But no, you keep harping on about the utterly fucking trivial indie games industry, if it can even be called that.
- exstudent2 11y ago
  Of course you would say that. And of course you don't disclose your own personal history with GG: https://m.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2n0rxz/casey_johnston_is_out_but_drpizza_is_still_in/ https://m.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2n0rxz/casey_... You are one of the unethical journalists in question.
  - DrPizza 11y ago
    Please enumerate all my unethical journalistic acts, thanks.
    - exstudent2 11y ago
      You need look no further than your obvious agenda in the comments here. You totally misrepresent what Totilo says, you add snark laden, content free comments (what's 'kappa' mean?), and generally act like you're throwing a tantrum.

eropple 11y ago

Those goalposts are heavy, aren't they? I mean, that's interesting, but it's completely unrelated to anything related to the coordinated harassment campaign aimed at Zoe Quinn. So what's your point, exactly? Don't get me wrong: I love you guys. You have made "SJW" a desirable thing to be. I'm just not big on this whole dishonesty kick.

exstudent2 11y ago
> it's completely unrelated to anything related to the coordinated harassment campaign aimed at Zoe Quinn. That is my point. GamerGate isn't about harassment, it's about media, censorship, journalism, centralized vs. decentralized control and a bunch of other stuff.
- eropple 11y ago
  No, it's not. Don't get me wrong: I am certain that you believe that. I am not calling you a liar. But you're wrong. The core of GamerGate is the same bunch of misogynistic tools who have been around for years, occasionally manifesting into a herpetic flare-up somewhere or other before going away again for a while. (They didn't come from 4chan, but they incubated there.) Guys like Milo Yiannopolous don't give a shit about video games, they give a shit about hurting women, and you are useful by proxy. The rhetoric about ethics-in-journalism-etcetera-etcetera sounds nice, and in it you and I can find a bunch to agree with. But it doesn't matter. Because the actions are what matter, and the actions are fucking reprehensible. Please don't insult my intelligence with false equivalencies and but-but-but-both-sides because but-but-but-both-sides is not true. None of the misogynistic toolbags have been chased from their homes, none of them have been confronted with credible threats to their lives and their families. It has not happened. The notion that it has is fictional at its core. The reason GamerGate functionally evaporated as quickly as it showed up, aside from particularly die-hard members of the useful-idiot troupe, is because most of your fellows went away once Stephen Colbert made fun of you. There's a reason why the influential string-pullers have been saying things like "give up and try again next year". Because they don't care about what you care about. The social credibility went away, and as soon as the social credibility went away that hard core couldn't do what they wanted to do with your help. In the process of supporting their movement in the hopes that you get something out of it, you are hurting the defenseless. I hope you stop.
  - exstudent2 11y ago
    I think you're conflating hurting women and fighting feminism. They are not the same thing. I'm not a feminist but that doesn't mean I'm a misogynist. It just means I don't agree with the tactics and politics employed by feminists (as a political group). I can't speak for everyone in GG, but I think my opinion is shared with others. > None of the misogynistic toolbags have been chased from their homes, none of them have been confronted with credible threats to their lives and their families. It has not happened. The notion that it has is fictional at its core. No one has had this happen to them. No one has been arrested on either side of GamerGate. There's no "credible threat" to anyone involved. The fiction you say exists on GG is evident in your own argument as well. No one is credibly being threatened.
    - eropple 11y ago
      I'm not conflating anything. I know the hard core of your movement. They are not new people to me. Their agendas are not hidden--and they're not even hidden within the noxious little vortex that you're chilling in, you just don't want to see it. Spend a little time amongst your buds where they think nobody's looking, like 8chan, and you'll get it. (Oh, but they're not "the real GamerGate", I am always assured. Except that they're the straw that actually stirs the drink...because the rest are useful idiots.) And for reals, nobody has had this happen? I've had a friend crash on my couch after your fellow travelers have doxxed her, emailed her pictures of her house, and said that they'd come to her house and "slit [her] throat like a pig." So you can turn this sideways and insert it back where it belongs.
      - exstudent2 11y ago
        I'm not sure which boogeyman you're fighting but since you're talking to me all I can say is that I've never threatened anyone and never would (shouldn't even need to be said). Honestly, your condescending tone, immaturity and personal attacks are things I can't get on-board with. Being righteously indignant doesn't help you make your case.
        11y ago
- comrh 11y ago
  You can keep saying that but it has a long, well documented history of harassment. It might be about those other things too but I strongly feel that name has been poisoned beyond recovery.

DrPizza 11y ago

> None of this would have come to light without GamerGate. Including the stuff in his comment that happened before GamerGate and was widely known about and reported on before GamerGate? "None of this" indeed. Oh, and Totilo doesn't describe any kind of compromising relationship between Quinn and any of his writers, which merely underscores the fundamentally dishonest basis of the entire "movement". "ethics in games journalism" was always a pretext for "attack Zoe Quinn", which is why you idiots continue to bitch about "oh gosh someone in the games industry knows someone else" and not, you know, "major games publishers won't deal with critical outlets" or "major games publishers try to break through the Chinese wall between editorial and advertising by holding outlets hostage" or "non-disclosure of advertising funded by major publishers is routine on YouTube" or "the games industry is fundamentally corrupted by the widespread use of pre-orders rendering titles immune to reviews or even basic quality control" or "major publishers routinely use death marches, even though this is detrimental to both game quality and programmer wellbeing" or all sorts of other issues that actually matter worth a damn. But no, you keep harping on about the utterly fucking trivial indie games industry, if it can even be called that.

exstudent2 11y ago
Of course you would say that. And of course you don't disclose your own personal history with GG: https://m.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2n0rxz/casey_johnston_is_out_but_drpizza_is_still_in/ https://m.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2n0rxz/casey_... You are one of the unethical journalists in question.
- DrPizza 11y ago
  Please enumerate all my unethical journalistic acts, thanks.
  - exstudent2 11y ago
    You need look no further than your obvious agenda in the comments here. You totally misrepresent what Totilo says, you add snark laden, content free comments (what's 'kappa' mean?), and generally act like you're throwing a tantrum.