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Meanwhile GM gets away with a laughable $900m settlement for knowingly using faulty parts that have caused the deaths of hundreds and many more severely injured

by tinbad 11y ago

Meanwhile GM gets away with a laughable $900m settlement for knowingly using faulty parts that have caused the deaths of hundreds and many more severely injured. Reason I'm saying this is I expect VW will end up paying magnitudes of this amount for their wrongdoing that did not result in anyone's death. EDIT: Toyota had to settle for $1.2b in the unintended acceleration lawsuit that may have caused the death of 3 people where, up to this day, there is still no proof that there was something wrong with the cars, let alone that any employees were knowingly approving the installation of faulty parts. http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-09-18/gm-s-cynicism-pays-off-in-ignition-settlement http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-09-18/gm-s-cynici...

NickM 11y ago
for their wrongdoing that did not result in anyone's death It's well-established that fossil fuel emissions actually do cause many deaths due to increased cancer rates and other respiratory illnesses. Burning diesel without proper emission control systems will also create larger particulate pollution which is especially detrimental to the public health. Unlike the GM case, it will be impossible to trace exactly how many premature deaths VW has contributed to, but that doesn't mean they should be punished any less harshly.
- enraged_camel 11y ago
  Don't forget the contribution to climate change. It's probably negligible, since the cheating VW cars make up a very small portion of cars worldwide, but it's still worth thinking about, in my opinion.
  - femto113 11y ago
    It might not be that negligible--in the US alone there are were half million or so diesel VWs sold since 2009--if they are really spewing 40x the limit, then we're talking emissions equivalent to almost 20 million cars that do meet the limit. This is around 1 to 2 years of total new cars sales, or roughly 10% of the active light-duty vehicle fleet in the US.
  - MagnumOpus 11y ago
    This is not about climate change. The main climate change contributor from emissions is CO2 - which relates 1:1 to fuel consumption (and how could it be otherwise). Fuel consumption is hard to fake and is tested independently all the time. What this is about is particulates and NO and NO2 - which aren't a significant contributor to climate change, but have detrimental effects such as emphysema or bronchitis in humans, acid rain or creation of surface ozone that damages lungs.
- killerpopiller 11y ago
  but is NOx that harmfull?
  - Aloisius 11y ago
    Yes. NOx is quite bad for you. Short-term NO2 exposure is, in and of itself, harmful. In as short as 30 minutes, even healthy people will have adverse respiratory effects like airway inflammation. NOx reacts with ammonia and other compounds to form nitrate fine (PM2.5) particles that get lodged in the lungs which can cause everything from bronchitis to emphysema. NOx reacts with hydrocarbons and sunlight to create ozone which is quite damaging to your respiratory system. In the US, NOx is considered to cause upwards of 150,000 premature deaths per year - mostly from fine particles (PM2.5).
deleted 11y ago
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spullara 11y ago
You really have no idea whether or not the additional pollution caused anyone's death. This is part of the problem with figuring out the true costs of things like oil.
kuschku 11y ago
Of course. This is protectionism. Simple as that. No need to ask questions why 3 people dead are fined more than hundreds dead.

by tinbad 11y ago

NickM 11y ago

for their wrongdoing that did not result in anyone's death It's well-established that fossil fuel emissions actually do cause many deaths due to increased cancer rates and other respiratory illnesses. Burning diesel without proper emission control systems will also create larger particulate pollution which is especially detrimental to the public health. Unlike the GM case, it will be impossible to trace exactly how many premature deaths VW has contributed to, but that doesn't mean they should be punished any less harshly.

enraged_camel 11y ago
Don't forget the contribution to climate change. It's probably negligible, since the cheating VW cars make up a very small portion of cars worldwide, but it's still worth thinking about, in my opinion.
- femto113 11y ago
  It might not be that negligible--in the US alone there are were half million or so diesel VWs sold since 2009--if they are really spewing 40x the limit, then we're talking emissions equivalent to almost 20 million cars that do meet the limit. This is around 1 to 2 years of total new cars sales, or roughly 10% of the active light-duty vehicle fleet in the US.
- MagnumOpus 11y ago
  This is not about climate change. The main climate change contributor from emissions is CO2 - which relates 1:1 to fuel consumption (and how could it be otherwise). Fuel consumption is hard to fake and is tested independently all the time. What this is about is particulates and NO and NO2 - which aren't a significant contributor to climate change, but have detrimental effects such as emphysema or bronchitis in humans, acid rain or creation of surface ozone that damages lungs.
killerpopiller 11y ago
but is NOx that harmfull?
- Aloisius 11y ago
  Yes. NOx is quite bad for you. Short-term NO2 exposure is, in and of itself, harmful. In as short as 30 minutes, even healthy people will have adverse respiratory effects like airway inflammation. NOx reacts with ammonia and other compounds to form nitrate fine (PM2.5) particles that get lodged in the lungs which can cause everything from bronchitis to emphysema. NOx reacts with hydrocarbons and sunlight to create ozone which is quite damaging to your respiratory system. In the US, NOx is considered to cause upwards of 150,000 premature deaths per year - mostly from fine particles (PM2.5).

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

spullara 11y ago

You really have no idea whether or not the additional pollution caused anyone's death. This is part of the problem with figuring out the true costs of things like oil.

kuschku 11y ago

Of course. This is protectionism. Simple as that. No need to ask questions why 3 people dead are fined more than hundreds dead.