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> the thinly-disguised harassment campaign I am not convinced that repeating a lie a thousand times will make this claim the truth. The propaganda may have wor

> the thinly-disguised harassment campaign I am not convinced that repeating a lie a thousand times will make this claim the truth. The propaganda may have worked well back when gamergate was completely unknown to the general public, but we are past that, I think.

robin_reala 11y ago
You’re partially right at least. It’s now a completely undisguised harassment campaign.
- Karunamon 11y ago
  Yeah, no. People claiming "harassment!" absent evidence is not proof of said harassment existing, doubly so when the people shouting the loudest have a profit motive for its supposed existence. Also: It would be rather disingenuous to claim that gamergate are a bunch of harassers without acknowledging that prominent people within the movement have received things like syringes and knives in the mail... and been blackballed from the industry.. Kind of puts in perspective this "harassment", which at its worst, can be described as "people saying mean things on the internet". http://deepfreeze.it http://deepfreeze.it - also all public record.
  - igreulich 11y ago
    Perception is reality. And it seems the perception is that Gahergate is a group of harrasors. You (not you personally) saying it is not will not change that perception. It seems to me that if you want Gamegate to be taken seriously (though I think it is way to late for that) Gamergate needs to start cleaning out it ranks. Which highlights the real issue. Gamergate has no central entity. So there are going to be people harrassing under the banner of Gamergate, and you can’t do anything about it. The name is tarnished, full stop. It will be almost impossible for Gamergate to do any good now, assuming it ever wanted to good!
    - Karunamon 11y ago
      You (not you personally) saying it is not will not change that perception. Perhaps, but correcting misinformation wherever its seen should be the goal of anyone connected with the movement. Perceptions can change. Gamers have been a marginalized group for pretty much as long as the hobby has existed, so this is nothing new. People lying about them, their hobby, making fun of them as losers and shut-ins and immature and criminals in training, this is all de rigeur. One more insult on the pile doesn't change much. >Gamergate needs to start cleaning out it ranks. How so? Other than shouting down harassers, I'm not sure what action you expect a bunch of people centered around a hashtag and an idea to take. >It will be almost impossible for Gamergate to do any good now I'd say they've done quite a lot of good already. Disclosure policies at multiple journalism outfits enacted, FTC rules on paid endorsements being clarified due largely in part to an emailing campaign, hundreds of thousands of dollars raised for various charities...
      - Dirlewanger 11y ago
        >I'd say they've done quite a lot of good already. Absolutely, and the saddest part about all this is that entities with painfully overt agendas (The Verge/Vox, Ars Technica, etc.) were more than happy to report on all the negatives, and will still continue to, while reporting none of the good that's come out of it. Same with people on this site for the most part: they've completely made up their mind about what Gamergate stands for and will hear nothing else about it. Which is hilariously ironic given how much this site likes to tote itself as a well-educated bunch. Groupthink/hivemind tendencies are always the same for any community of humans.
        DanBC 11y ago
        Can you (or any pro-gamergaters) show me one site that you think counts as a pro gamergate site?
        Karunamon 11y ago
        Here's a few: http://deepfreeze.it http://deepfreeze.it (exhaustively sourced list of complaints against game journalists and information on the movement as a whole) http://techraptor.com http://techraptor.com (games news site, spawned in the wake of gamergate) http://escapistmagazine.com http://escapistmagazine.com (games news site, updated ethics policies after initial complaints, allows open discussion on the forums)
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
    > People claiming "harassment!" absent evidence is not proof of said harassment existing Who said there's no evidence?
- mushtifaha 11y ago
  It is being continuosly harassed by people who claim they are fighting harassment, that's for sure. But I don't think that such strategy is going to pay off. You can't just yell harassment as means to abuse people into submission. Many have tried similar tactics in the past and it never works in the long run.
  - TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
    > It is being continuosly harassed by people who claim they are fighting harassment, that's for sure. Harassed? Which members of gamergate have been forced out of their homes?
    - BgSpnnrs 11y ago
      I think Mike Cernovich did after he got doxxed and attempted swatted
- Lawtonfogle 11y ago
  If a few incidents by bad actors make a harassment campaign, what does that say for feminism with incidents such as donglegate.
  - icebraining 11y ago
    Karunamon above, defending GG, says it started out as an harassment campaign. Is it wrong?
    - Lawtonfogle 11y ago
      I'm sure there are a few civil rights movements that had some nasty issues when they started out. Do we judge based on where one came from or who one is now?
      - icebraining 11y ago
        I think I was clear in that I wasn't talking about isolated incidents. comrh wrote "the beginning of the GG movement was mainly a force to harass people", and Karunamon - who has also been defending GG on this thread - agreed. If a civil rights movement had started for the purpose of doing unacceptable acts, I would definitively judge the people who chose to associate with it. (Of course, I'd excuse a lot from a civil rights movement that I wouldn't excuse from a movement dedicated to fighting bad gaming journalism - regardless of the merits of their claims.)
        Lawtonfogle 11y ago
        >Karunamon - who has also been defending GG on this thread - agreed. I'm not sure why Karunamon agreed, but I largely passed on this point because that is an argument that would only distract from the overall point. I would assume Karunamon wanted to not get mired down in that point as well. From what I have seen, I would say that it was not founded for that purpose, but there have been bad actors who have been a part of it. >Of course, I'd excuse a lot from a civil rights movement that I wouldn't excuse from a movement dedicated to fighting bad gaming journalism What are some behaviors you would excuse from one but not the other?
deleted 11y ago
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TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
On the contrary, the claim is the truth, and the idea that gamergate is not a harassment campaign is a lie. The original creators of the movement explicitly stated that it was intended to be such, and that 'ethics in game journalism' is a cover story. Of course, most members of gamergate do not believe they are in a harassment campaign, but why would they? The leaders of the movement will indulge them and tell them what they are doing is just.
- thieving_magpie 11y ago
  who are the "leaders of the movement"?
  - TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
    The people who most influence gamergate, the people who gamergate listen to. They do exist. Gamergate may be decentralised, but like any campaign, it does have leaders.
    - thieving_magpie 11y ago
      I'm clearly asking for some names. You're avoiding the question. who are the "leaders of the movement"?
      - TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
        Well, one example would be Milo Yiannopoulos. A journalist with a murky past (screwing over staff working under him) and who, prior to joining gamergate, actively mocked video gamers.
        thieving_magpie 11y ago
        Interesting - I hadn't heard of him. The wiki page certainly seems to back up the claim regarding his contempt for gamers.
        11y ago

robin_reala 11y ago

You’re partially right at least. It’s now a completely undisguised harassment campaign.

Karunamon 11y ago
Yeah, no. People claiming "harassment!" absent evidence is not proof of said harassment existing, doubly so when the people shouting the loudest have a profit motive for its supposed existence. Also: It would be rather disingenuous to claim that gamergate are a bunch of harassers without acknowledging that prominent people within the movement have received things like syringes and knives in the mail... and been blackballed from the industry.. Kind of puts in perspective this "harassment", which at its worst, can be described as "people saying mean things on the internet". http://deepfreeze.it http://deepfreeze.it - also all public record.
- igreulich 11y ago
  Perception is reality. And it seems the perception is that Gahergate is a group of harrasors. You (not you personally) saying it is not will not change that perception. It seems to me that if you want Gamegate to be taken seriously (though I think it is way to late for that) Gamergate needs to start cleaning out it ranks. Which highlights the real issue. Gamergate has no central entity. So there are going to be people harrassing under the banner of Gamergate, and you can’t do anything about it. The name is tarnished, full stop. It will be almost impossible for Gamergate to do any good now, assuming it ever wanted to good!
  - Karunamon 11y ago
    You (not you personally) saying it is not will not change that perception. Perhaps, but correcting misinformation wherever its seen should be the goal of anyone connected with the movement. Perceptions can change. Gamers have been a marginalized group for pretty much as long as the hobby has existed, so this is nothing new. People lying about them, their hobby, making fun of them as losers and shut-ins and immature and criminals in training, this is all de rigeur. One more insult on the pile doesn't change much. >Gamergate needs to start cleaning out it ranks. How so? Other than shouting down harassers, I'm not sure what action you expect a bunch of people centered around a hashtag and an idea to take. >It will be almost impossible for Gamergate to do any good now I'd say they've done quite a lot of good already. Disclosure policies at multiple journalism outfits enacted, FTC rules on paid endorsements being clarified due largely in part to an emailing campaign, hundreds of thousands of dollars raised for various charities...
    - Dirlewanger 11y ago
      >I'd say they've done quite a lot of good already. Absolutely, and the saddest part about all this is that entities with painfully overt agendas (The Verge/Vox, Ars Technica, etc.) were more than happy to report on all the negatives, and will still continue to, while reporting none of the good that's come out of it. Same with people on this site for the most part: they've completely made up their mind about what Gamergate stands for and will hear nothing else about it. Which is hilariously ironic given how much this site likes to tote itself as a well-educated bunch. Groupthink/hivemind tendencies are always the same for any community of humans.
      - DanBC 11y ago
        Can you (or any pro-gamergaters) show me one site that you think counts as a pro gamergate site?
        Karunamon 11y ago
        Here's a few: http://deepfreeze.it http://deepfreeze.it (exhaustively sourced list of complaints against game journalists and information on the movement as a whole) http://techraptor.com http://techraptor.com (games news site, spawned in the wake of gamergate) http://escapistmagazine.com http://escapistmagazine.com (games news site, updated ethics policies after initial complaints, allows open discussion on the forums)
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
  > People claiming "harassment!" absent evidence is not proof of said harassment existing Who said there's no evidence?
mushtifaha 11y ago
It is being continuosly harassed by people who claim they are fighting harassment, that's for sure. But I don't think that such strategy is going to pay off. You can't just yell harassment as means to abuse people into submission. Many have tried similar tactics in the past and it never works in the long run.
- TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
  > It is being continuosly harassed by people who claim they are fighting harassment, that's for sure. Harassed? Which members of gamergate have been forced out of their homes?
  - BgSpnnrs 11y ago
    I think Mike Cernovich did after he got doxxed and attempted swatted
Lawtonfogle 11y ago
If a few incidents by bad actors make a harassment campaign, what does that say for feminism with incidents such as donglegate.
- icebraining 11y ago
  Karunamon above, defending GG, says it started out as an harassment campaign. Is it wrong?
  - Lawtonfogle 11y ago
    I'm sure there are a few civil rights movements that had some nasty issues when they started out. Do we judge based on where one came from or who one is now?
    - icebraining 11y ago
      I think I was clear in that I wasn't talking about isolated incidents. comrh wrote "the beginning of the GG movement was mainly a force to harass people", and Karunamon - who has also been defending GG on this thread - agreed. If a civil rights movement had started for the purpose of doing unacceptable acts, I would definitively judge the people who chose to associate with it. (Of course, I'd excuse a lot from a civil rights movement that I wouldn't excuse from a movement dedicated to fighting bad gaming journalism - regardless of the merits of their claims.)
      - Lawtonfogle 11y ago
        >Karunamon - who has also been defending GG on this thread - agreed. I'm not sure why Karunamon agreed, but I largely passed on this point because that is an argument that would only distract from the overall point. I would assume Karunamon wanted to not get mired down in that point as well. From what I have seen, I would say that it was not founded for that purpose, but there have been bad actors who have been a part of it. >Of course, I'd excuse a lot from a civil rights movement that I wouldn't excuse from a movement dedicated to fighting bad gaming journalism What are some behaviors you would excuse from one but not the other?

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago

On the contrary, the claim is the truth, and the idea that gamergate is not a harassment campaign is a lie. The original creators of the movement explicitly stated that it was intended to be such, and that 'ethics in game journalism' is a cover story. Of course, most members of gamergate do not believe they are in a harassment campaign, but why would they? The leaders of the movement will indulge them and tell them what they are doing is just.

thieving_magpie 11y ago
who are the "leaders of the movement"?
- TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
  The people who most influence gamergate, the people who gamergate listen to. They do exist. Gamergate may be decentralised, but like any campaign, it does have leaders.
  - thieving_magpie 11y ago
    I'm clearly asking for some names. You're avoiding the question. who are the "leaders of the movement"?
    - TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
      Well, one example would be Milo Yiannopoulos. A journalist with a murky past (screwing over staff working under him) and who, prior to joining gamergate, actively mocked video gamers.
      - thieving_magpie 11y ago
        Interesting - I hadn't heard of him. The wiki page certainly seems to back up the claim regarding his contempt for gamers.
      - 11y ago