8 ms·

Curious, are you going to return the vehicle for any recall notices? You realize once they "fix" the emissions issue, the performance of the car is probably go

Curious, are you going to return the vehicle for any recall notices? You realize once they "fix" the emissions issue, the performance of the car is probably going to tank. I have to imagine you will no longer realize the ratings as advertised on the Monroney sticker? I was thinking to myself, I would avoid the recall but then I think there is fine print that states the OEM must be able to service your vehicle to maintain said warranty. Interesting pickle. How stupid VW is.

thrownaway2424 11y ago
In California it will be unavoidable due to CARB-DMV coordination. If your vehicle hasn't been fixed they won't allow you to register it.
mizzao 11y ago
I imagine a lot of customers will avoid getting the "fix" in order to maintain the performance of their cars. There's not much that they can do to force these people to bring their cars back.
- emcrazyone 11y ago
  tend to agree. In Michigan, there are no laws requiring owners to pass an emissions test. There use to be in the 80s but they were dissolved in the late 80s. I believe states like California still have them and I know, at least, Illinois has them. In Illinois, it's a simple matter of a test center pulling data from the ODB2 port.
- nullc 11y ago
  > There's not much that they can do to force these people to bring their cars back. Uh. In any place with emissions tests I presume these things will instantly fail without the upgrade, so you won't be able to preserve your registration without it.
  - inyourtenement 11y ago
    Are you expecting places to implement specific exceptions for these cars? Because presumably they've been passing so far. So, jurisdictions would have to put in specific blocks for these cars, and then have some way to test for the fix. It'll be interesting to see what happens. FWIW, my county doesn't do emissions tests on diesels.
  - atomicUpdate 11y ago
    The whole point of this discussion is that the car detects it's being tested, then specifically alters the engine's behavior to pass the test. So, no, they won't fail the test without the fix.
    - dsuth 11y ago
      You would have to assume that by 'automatically failing', the test would involve checking the software version, and if it's not updated, the car instantly fails the test. I can't imagine a test centre knowingly passing a car which has been shown to cheat on tests.
blacksmith_tb 11y ago
The impact of flashing the fix to the ECU remains to be seen - my instinct is the loss would be in the 10% - 20% range (I have an older TDI VW, with a different engine). Given that these vehicles are typically getting 50 - 55mpg, that still wouldn't make them useless. Obviously disappointing though. I wish we could get Toyota diesels in the US...
- redbeard0x0a 11y ago
  41MPG is the rated highway MPG that is shown on the sticker for the VW Jetta in the year range from the article. I have a 2011 and I would average between 40-45 on the highway and 30-35 in town. 50-55 is not typical for these specific cars.
  - cweagans 11y ago
    I average 51mpg in an unmodified 2013 Jetta TDI on the highway, usually at exactly 65mph.
- inyourtenement 11y ago
  I have a Golf TDI and I get 38 mpg average. I'm skeptical that any of these cars are typically getting 50-55 mpg.
  - arcticbull 11y ago
    My old 2009 VW Jetta TDI averaged over 50MPG highway on a cross-country road trip, 38MPG in combined highway/city driving in the Canadian winter. If you're keeping it to highway driving, it's totally doable.
    - inyourtenement 11y ago
      But definitely not typical.
  - grubles 11y ago
    A lot of fuel efficiency is due to how one drives their car.[0] [0]http://www.wikihow.com/Hypermile http://www.wikihow.com/Hypermile
arcticbull 11y ago
Honestly flashing the ECU would likely reduce driving dynamics (horsepower and torque) but it might push fuel economy up. I'm excited to find out.
philwelch 11y ago
There are already aftermarket firmware flashes you can get for a TDI that improve performance and efficiency at the expense of increased emissions--basically an extreme version of the VW cheat mode.

thrownaway2424 11y ago

In California it will be unavoidable due to CARB-DMV coordination. If your vehicle hasn't been fixed they won't allow you to register it.

mizzao 11y ago

I imagine a lot of customers will avoid getting the "fix" in order to maintain the performance of their cars. There's not much that they can do to force these people to bring their cars back.

emcrazyone 11y ago
tend to agree. In Michigan, there are no laws requiring owners to pass an emissions test. There use to be in the 80s but they were dissolved in the late 80s. I believe states like California still have them and I know, at least, Illinois has them. In Illinois, it's a simple matter of a test center pulling data from the ODB2 port.
nullc 11y ago
> There's not much that they can do to force these people to bring their cars back. Uh. In any place with emissions tests I presume these things will instantly fail without the upgrade, so you won't be able to preserve your registration without it.
- inyourtenement 11y ago
  Are you expecting places to implement specific exceptions for these cars? Because presumably they've been passing so far. So, jurisdictions would have to put in specific blocks for these cars, and then have some way to test for the fix. It'll be interesting to see what happens. FWIW, my county doesn't do emissions tests on diesels.
- atomicUpdate 11y ago
  The whole point of this discussion is that the car detects it's being tested, then specifically alters the engine's behavior to pass the test. So, no, they won't fail the test without the fix.
  - dsuth 11y ago
    You would have to assume that by 'automatically failing', the test would involve checking the software version, and if it's not updated, the car instantly fails the test. I can't imagine a test centre knowingly passing a car which has been shown to cheat on tests.

blacksmith_tb 11y ago

The impact of flashing the fix to the ECU remains to be seen - my instinct is the loss would be in the 10% - 20% range (I have an older TDI VW, with a different engine). Given that these vehicles are typically getting 50 - 55mpg, that still wouldn't make them useless. Obviously disappointing though. I wish we could get Toyota diesels in the US...

redbeard0x0a 11y ago
41MPG is the rated highway MPG that is shown on the sticker for the VW Jetta in the year range from the article. I have a 2011 and I would average between 40-45 on the highway and 30-35 in town. 50-55 is not typical for these specific cars.
- cweagans 11y ago
  I average 51mpg in an unmodified 2013 Jetta TDI on the highway, usually at exactly 65mph.
inyourtenement 11y ago
I have a Golf TDI and I get 38 mpg average. I'm skeptical that any of these cars are typically getting 50-55 mpg.
- arcticbull 11y ago
  My old 2009 VW Jetta TDI averaged over 50MPG highway on a cross-country road trip, 38MPG in combined highway/city driving in the Canadian winter. If you're keeping it to highway driving, it's totally doable.
  - inyourtenement 11y ago
    But definitely not typical.
- grubles 11y ago
  A lot of fuel efficiency is due to how one drives their car.[0] [0]http://www.wikihow.com/Hypermile http://www.wikihow.com/Hypermile

arcticbull 11y ago

Honestly flashing the ECU would likely reduce driving dynamics (horsepower and torque) but it might push fuel economy up. I'm excited to find out.

philwelch 11y ago

There are already aftermarket firmware flashes you can get for a TDI that improve performance and efficiency at the expense of increased emissions--basically an extreme version of the VW cheat mode.