4 ms·

>Almost no other category of consumer good works in the modular way that we nerds wish that everything would. One exception I can think of are bicycles.

by ginko 11y ago

jbl 11y ago
Although, even bicycles (at least those designed for racing) are starting to become more and more proprietary. Try mixing and matching Shimano and Campagnolo shifters and derailleurs or using a seatpost from an aerodynamic frame in another one.
- cujo 11y ago
  Have Compagnolo components ever been compatible with other maker's parts? As far as I know Shimano and SRAM are compatible, and most of the smaller players work in the same way. Compagnolo, AFAIK, is the only outlier here. As for the seat post, it's these molded carbon frames that seem to be built for short use and then the trash that are problematic in my eyes. They're just wasteful and most of the people buying them are doing it just to buy some time for their various races. Having gotten in to triathlons a bit lately, I'm constantly annoyed that someone can literally buy gear to make themselves minutes faster, even though our engines may be comparable. I wish the organizing bodies would standardize the equipment for competition.
  - eitally 11y ago
    The flip side to this (triathlon gear) is ITU draft legal racing, where it's basically like a criterion and requires the same UCI compliant bike setups as a road race would. This solves the problem in one way but creates a new one. Take a look at the world standings (for women, especially). Gwen Jorgensen is a beast, for sure, but she wins because she's a ridiculously strong runner who managed to get her swim good enough so she could hang with the leaders. On the bike she just has to ride with the pack. ... then, like Mirinda Carfrae in Ironman, leaves everyone in her dust on the run. I'm not sure this is fairer or not.
    - ska 11y ago
      Haven't (particularly longer distance) triathalons always been a runners race?
      - eitally 11y ago
        Not really. Exceptional cyclists who are average runners still do very well on full iron distances. "Average runner" meaning they can crank out a 3:15-3:30 marathon after the first two events (so not really "average at all). That said, people who come into triathlon from a running background do tend to do better than swimmers or cyclists who have to learn the other two events.
  - jbl 11y ago
    In the days of friction shifting, it used to be common to mix and match components across the entire drivetrain. You could have shifters, derailleurs, chains, freewheels, and hubs all from different manufacturers. Drivelines are more integrated now, with derailleurs, cog tooth profiles, chains, and shifters designed as a system with minimal thought given to cross compatibility. At best you could use a non-Campy/non-Shimano chain.
  - mindcrime 11y ago
    As far as I know Shimano and SRAM are compatible, My understanding is that they aren't, at least where we are talking about indexed shifting (which is pretty much everything these days). The amount of cable pull per "click" is different between SRAM and Shimano, which means you can't use a Shimano shifter with a SRAM derailleur. Or maybe that's just true in MTB world and not road bike world, not sure. OTOH, chain, cogs and chainrings are pretty much compatible, at least within the constraints imposed by the changes in chain width to accomodate the newer, denser cassettes. Eg, 10 speed chain or 9 speed chain won't work with an 11-speed drivetrain.
VLM 11y ago
Hi Fi stereo sound is strongly out of cultural favor, tinny little speakers and 64K mp3 quality means you're conspicuously consuming smartphones, which is more important. However, component hi-fi stereo or 80s era home entertainment systems were a very modular thing in the past. From my wife's point of view its one octopus like appliance, but to mine it was a collection of amp, speakers, and legacy media players.
- marrs 11y ago
  Can't imagine why you've been down voted for this completely accurate observation.
  - ghaff 11y ago
    Probably because the observation is accurate but it's mixed in with snark like "conspicuously consuming smartphones." Component systems were certainly modular although I honestly don't know if I were starting over today I'd go with a big multi-speaker stereo system over something like a Sonos.
- Cthulhu_ 11y ago
  I remember seeing a vintage studio recorder at one point; the manual it came with included all of the schematics of the electrics, so that you could make your own replacement parts. That's some future proofing right there - the device's creator (probably Philips) knew they wouldn't last forever, while their device probably would. It did cost a fortune back when though, I have to add.
- dsr_ 11y ago
  If you buy a pair of Sony MDR-7506 headphones -- they've been around since 1991, still being made, under $100 on sale -- you get an exploded diagram with part numbers for everything. At the end of the cable is a 3.5mm TRS phone jack connector, which has a passive adapter to 6.35mm (1/4"). The 1/4 inch phone jack was invented in 1878, for use in the repetitive insertion environment of a manual telephone switchboard. Basically every set of headphones you've used in your life has used a phone plug/jack connector. It's a pretty good bet that a hundred years from now there will still be people using phone plug/jack systems to connect up systems where some part needs 2-4 wires and will be repeatedly removed and re-inserted.

>Almost no other category of consumer good works in the modular way that we nerds wish that everything would. One exception I can think of are bicycles.

by ginko 11y ago

>Almost no other category of consumer good works in the modular way that we nerds wish that everything would. One exception I can think of are bicycles.

jbl 11y ago

Although, even bicycles (at least those designed for racing) are starting to become more and more proprietary. Try mixing and matching Shimano and Campagnolo shifters and derailleurs or using a seatpost from an aerodynamic frame in another one.

cujo 11y ago
Have Compagnolo components ever been compatible with other maker's parts? As far as I know Shimano and SRAM are compatible, and most of the smaller players work in the same way. Compagnolo, AFAIK, is the only outlier here. As for the seat post, it's these molded carbon frames that seem to be built for short use and then the trash that are problematic in my eyes. They're just wasteful and most of the people buying them are doing it just to buy some time for their various races. Having gotten in to triathlons a bit lately, I'm constantly annoyed that someone can literally buy gear to make themselves minutes faster, even though our engines may be comparable. I wish the organizing bodies would standardize the equipment for competition.
- eitally 11y ago
  The flip side to this (triathlon gear) is ITU draft legal racing, where it's basically like a criterion and requires the same UCI compliant bike setups as a road race would. This solves the problem in one way but creates a new one. Take a look at the world standings (for women, especially). Gwen Jorgensen is a beast, for sure, but she wins because she's a ridiculously strong runner who managed to get her swim good enough so she could hang with the leaders. On the bike she just has to ride with the pack. ... then, like Mirinda Carfrae in Ironman, leaves everyone in her dust on the run. I'm not sure this is fairer or not.
  - ska 11y ago
    Haven't (particularly longer distance) triathalons always been a runners race?
    - eitally 11y ago
      Not really. Exceptional cyclists who are average runners still do very well on full iron distances. "Average runner" meaning they can crank out a 3:15-3:30 marathon after the first two events (so not really "average at all). That said, people who come into triathlon from a running background do tend to do better than swimmers or cyclists who have to learn the other two events.
- jbl 11y ago
  In the days of friction shifting, it used to be common to mix and match components across the entire drivetrain. You could have shifters, derailleurs, chains, freewheels, and hubs all from different manufacturers. Drivelines are more integrated now, with derailleurs, cog tooth profiles, chains, and shifters designed as a system with minimal thought given to cross compatibility. At best you could use a non-Campy/non-Shimano chain.
- mindcrime 11y ago
  As far as I know Shimano and SRAM are compatible, My understanding is that they aren't, at least where we are talking about indexed shifting (which is pretty much everything these days). The amount of cable pull per "click" is different between SRAM and Shimano, which means you can't use a Shimano shifter with a SRAM derailleur. Or maybe that's just true in MTB world and not road bike world, not sure. OTOH, chain, cogs and chainrings are pretty much compatible, at least within the constraints imposed by the changes in chain width to accomodate the newer, denser cassettes. Eg, 10 speed chain or 9 speed chain won't work with an 11-speed drivetrain.

VLM 11y ago

Hi Fi stereo sound is strongly out of cultural favor, tinny little speakers and 64K mp3 quality means you're conspicuously consuming smartphones, which is more important. However, component hi-fi stereo or 80s era home entertainment systems were a very modular thing in the past. From my wife's point of view its one octopus like appliance, but to mine it was a collection of amp, speakers, and legacy media players.

marrs 11y ago
Can't imagine why you've been down voted for this completely accurate observation.
- ghaff 11y ago
  Probably because the observation is accurate but it's mixed in with snark like "conspicuously consuming smartphones." Component systems were certainly modular although I honestly don't know if I were starting over today I'd go with a big multi-speaker stereo system over something like a Sonos.
Cthulhu_ 11y ago
I remember seeing a vintage studio recorder at one point; the manual it came with included all of the schematics of the electrics, so that you could make your own replacement parts. That's some future proofing right there - the device's creator (probably Philips) knew they wouldn't last forever, while their device probably would. It did cost a fortune back when though, I have to add.
dsr_ 11y ago
If you buy a pair of Sony MDR-7506 headphones -- they've been around since 1991, still being made, under $100 on sale -- you get an exploded diagram with part numbers for everything. At the end of the cable is a 3.5mm TRS phone jack connector, which has a passive adapter to 6.35mm (1/4"). The 1/4 inch phone jack was invented in 1878, for use in the repetitive insertion environment of a manual telephone switchboard. Basically every set of headphones you've used in your life has used a phone plug/jack connector. It's a pretty good bet that a hundred years from now there will still be people using phone plug/jack systems to connect up systems where some part needs 2-4 wires and will be repeatedly removed and re-inserted.