4 ms·

We're talking about audio files, ebooks, and software--it's all bits. The difference is just on whose drive the bits reside. "Digital rights management (DRM) i

by GavinB 17y ago

We're talking about audio files, ebooks, and software--it's all bits. The difference is just on whose drive the bits reside. "Digital rights management (DRM) is a generic term for access control technologies that can be used by hardware manufacturers, publishers, copyright holders and individuals to try to impose limitations on the usage of digital content and devices." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_management http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_management) The current best way to control access to software is to run some key components on the server side in the SaaS model. From a business perspective, it accomplishes the goals of DRM beautifully--because the DRM naturally flows from its purpose and structure.

stcredzero 17y ago
the DRM naturally flows from its purpose and structure. To me that's just a fancy way of saying, it's on their server, they get their way. Not a problem, so long as I can do it my way on my machine. Therein is the big difference.
- GavinB 17y ago
  You can always do it your way on your machine. No one is forcing you to download DRMed content. DRM protects content by keeping key components encrypted. SaaS protects content by keeping key components server side. They're two technical approaches to achieve the same goal. I suspect the reason that no one objects is that SaaS uses the language of "subscription." I just have a hard time seeing why a DRMed program that runs on a client is morally repugnant while a functionally similar program running partially in the cloud is perfectly fine.
  - timknauf 17y ago
    But surely the distinction with a 'subscription' is more than just a language game? To my mind, a one-time fee for content strongly implies (by way of cultural expectation if nothing else) that I own rather than license that content. On the other hand, for a subscription service such as Basecamp, my interactions with my data must necessarily be mediated by a server. I do of course expect a way to export the data itself should I wish to unsubscribe - and they provide this. What more could I reasonably expect from them?
  - stcredzero 17y ago
    You can always do it your way on your machine. No one is forcing you to download DRMed content. The DMCA contradicts you. DRM protects content by keeping key components encrypted. SaaS protects content by keeping key components server side. They're two technical approaches to achieve the same goal. Not at all. "Possession is 9/10ths of the law" is a long standing common law principle. The way companies can "own" stuff you have in your possession runs counter to that. Not a good thing, IMO.
    - GavinB 17y ago
      What DRMed files is the DMCA forcing you to download? You make the decision to engage with companies that use DRM. No one is forcing you. (I don't mean to defend the entire DMCA, just the idea that you're being forced to download DRM) "Possession is 9/10ths of the law" is not a useful principle in cases where there is a contract. It seems that you want to force others to not have the option of entering into certain contracts, because you find them distasteful.
      - stcredzero 17y ago
        It seems that you want to force others to not have the option of entering into certain contracts, because you find them distasteful. [citation needed] Really, have I ever asked for legislation? I don't think I did. Please point this out in the thread. My actual position is that DRM and SaaS are two different things, because the former restricts what you can do on machines that you possess. You reply by pointing out that you can simply choose not to participate. However, my fear is that DRM on home computers and laptops will become as widespread as DRM in DVD players. And yes, this battle should be fought in the marketplace. This seems to be working so far, somewhat. Or is it? That's an interesting point. If I wanted to buy a new laptop or desktop completely free of DRM, how easy or hard is it for me to do so? Well, leave out any machines that come with Windows or OS X installed. Those contain DRM. Leave out machines with HDMI -- this also contains DRM. I think I'd have to build my own machine or custom order one. I think we're in danger of becoming a world where non-DRM hardware is hard to attain. There is far less danger of restrictive SaaS. If we don't like one provider, we simply move to a different one. The market for SaaS is still a bit more "free."

by GavinB 17y ago

stcredzero 17y ago

the DRM naturally flows from its purpose and structure. To me that's just a fancy way of saying, it's on their server, they get their way. Not a problem, so long as I can do it my way on my machine. Therein is the big difference.

GavinB 17y ago
You can always do it your way on your machine. No one is forcing you to download DRMed content. DRM protects content by keeping key components encrypted. SaaS protects content by keeping key components server side. They're two technical approaches to achieve the same goal. I suspect the reason that no one objects is that SaaS uses the language of "subscription." I just have a hard time seeing why a DRMed program that runs on a client is morally repugnant while a functionally similar program running partially in the cloud is perfectly fine.
- timknauf 17y ago
  But surely the distinction with a 'subscription' is more than just a language game? To my mind, a one-time fee for content strongly implies (by way of cultural expectation if nothing else) that I own rather than license that content. On the other hand, for a subscription service such as Basecamp, my interactions with my data must necessarily be mediated by a server. I do of course expect a way to export the data itself should I wish to unsubscribe - and they provide this. What more could I reasonably expect from them?
- stcredzero 17y ago
  You can always do it your way on your machine. No one is forcing you to download DRMed content. The DMCA contradicts you. DRM protects content by keeping key components encrypted. SaaS protects content by keeping key components server side. They're two technical approaches to achieve the same goal. Not at all. "Possession is 9/10ths of the law" is a long standing common law principle. The way companies can "own" stuff you have in your possession runs counter to that. Not a good thing, IMO.
  - GavinB 17y ago
    What DRMed files is the DMCA forcing you to download? You make the decision to engage with companies that use DRM. No one is forcing you. (I don't mean to defend the entire DMCA, just the idea that you're being forced to download DRM) "Possession is 9/10ths of the law" is not a useful principle in cases where there is a contract. It seems that you want to force others to not have the option of entering into certain contracts, because you find them distasteful.
    - stcredzero 17y ago
      It seems that you want to force others to not have the option of entering into certain contracts, because you find them distasteful. [citation needed] Really, have I ever asked for legislation? I don't think I did. Please point this out in the thread. My actual position is that DRM and SaaS are two different things, because the former restricts what you can do on machines that you possess. You reply by pointing out that you can simply choose not to participate. However, my fear is that DRM on home computers and laptops will become as widespread as DRM in DVD players. And yes, this battle should be fought in the marketplace. This seems to be working so far, somewhat. Or is it? That's an interesting point. If I wanted to buy a new laptop or desktop completely free of DRM, how easy or hard is it for me to do so? Well, leave out any machines that come with Windows or OS X installed. Those contain DRM. Leave out machines with HDMI -- this also contains DRM. I think I'd have to build my own machine or custom order one. I think we're in danger of becoming a world where non-DRM hardware is hard to attain. There is far less danger of restrictive SaaS. If we don't like one provider, we simply move to a different one. The market for SaaS is still a bit more "free."