3 ms·

> Why does it matter if, say, elephants go extinct? If they're extinct they're not suffering. That's the same logic a cartoon supervillain uses to justify a pl

> Why does it matter if, say, elephants go extinct? If they're extinct they're not suffering. That's the same logic a cartoon supervillain uses to justify a plan for destroying the world. To answer your question directly. I believe that elephants probably have inner lives at least as rich as humans with severe developmental problems, and thus should probably be afforded the same level of legal protection.

aianus 11y ago
That statement was made in the context of the relative morality of exterminating a species or enslaving it and forcing it to reproduce in order to feed on it. So yes, the same logic applies to humans; I would prefer the human race including myself to be wiped out if the alternative was Matrix-style enslavement.
- thesteamboat 11y ago
  If our only choices were exterminating elephants or raising them for food, I might agree with you. But that's not even close to the situation in the world today. Elephants are not in the same position as cattle. When lab-grown meat is a viable alternative there may well be a decision to abandon ranching (and by extension cows as a species) en masse. But we don't depend on eating elephants for food; people kill elephants for status reasons (ivory, 'medicines').
  - meric 11y ago
    You don't depend on elephants for food, it doesn't mean no one else does. Once an elephant is shot, the villagers just start to appear. Word gets out fast. It is like a celebration when an elephant is killed, the entire village will join in. The natives cut all of the meat off the bone and take it to their village to eat. They don’t let anything go to waste. http://gothunts.com/see-what-happens-to-an-elephant-after-elephant-hunting/ http://gothunts.com/see-what-happens-to-an-elephant-after-el... You're right, there is a distinction. We don't imprison elephants and raise them for the sole purpose of imprisonment, impregnation and death.
- hvis 11y ago
  Speak for yourself. I'd choose enslavement over extermination in a heartbeat.

aianus 11y ago

That statement was made in the context of the relative morality of exterminating a species or enslaving it and forcing it to reproduce in order to feed on it. So yes, the same logic applies to humans; I would prefer the human race including myself to be wiped out if the alternative was Matrix-style enslavement.

thesteamboat 11y ago
If our only choices were exterminating elephants or raising them for food, I might agree with you. But that's not even close to the situation in the world today. Elephants are not in the same position as cattle. When lab-grown meat is a viable alternative there may well be a decision to abandon ranching (and by extension cows as a species) en masse. But we don't depend on eating elephants for food; people kill elephants for status reasons (ivory, 'medicines').
- meric 11y ago
  You don't depend on elephants for food, it doesn't mean no one else does. Once an elephant is shot, the villagers just start to appear. Word gets out fast. It is like a celebration when an elephant is killed, the entire village will join in. The natives cut all of the meat off the bone and take it to their village to eat. They don’t let anything go to waste. http://gothunts.com/see-what-happens-to-an-elephant-after-elephant-hunting/ http://gothunts.com/see-what-happens-to-an-elephant-after-el... You're right, there is a distinction. We don't imprison elephants and raise them for the sole purpose of imprisonment, impregnation and death.
hvis 11y ago
Speak for yourself. I'd choose enslavement over extermination in a heartbeat.