4 ms·

How the Church of Scientology fought the Internet and why it lost

36 points by aaronbrethorst 11y ago

PaulHoule 11y ago
There was the alt.relgion.scientology wave and then anonymous got involved after that batshit crazy Tom Cruise video got leaked on Youtube and the church tried to hide it. One trouble with the church is their idea of of "ethics" is that when you are in trouble with the church you need to "Deliver an effective blow to the enemies of the group one has been pretending to be part of despite personal danger." This is like if you work at a pizza restaurant and you come in late for work or if you don't sell as many pizzas as you did last week you are expected to firebomb a competing pizza restaurant. And these people are so confused about why they have such consistently bad PR.
Animats 11y ago
From the article: “Scientology is cutting-edge technology for 1950. All of the most important policies were laid down by the 1960s.” Yes, which is their problem. Scientology is stuck with 1930s science. The "E-meter" is just an skin resistance ohmmeter, the least useful channel of a lie detector. If they were keeping up, they'd have the Scientology E-Meter Bracelet, a custom version of a Bluetooth fitness bracelet, reporting pulse, respiration, and skin resistance back to HQ in Clearwater, FL. They'd have auditing over Skype, server farms analyzing member communications and movements, and functional MRI machines at major Scientology centers. Even when they had a good idea, they didn't keep up with technology. In "How to Live though an Executive" (1953), L. Ron Hubbard describes what is instantly recognizable as a ticket system for handling problems. But it's all manual, with boards and hooks and paper cards and messengers. They never computerized that. A competing organization, the Rosicrucians, had the same problem. They used to have a "Science building" at Rosicrucian Park in San Jose (if you're in Silicon Valley, visit; they have great architecture, gardens, and museums), but it was stuck with 1950s high school physics experiments. Now they're building an Alchemy Museum. So retro. I wonder if you could get venture capital to start a modernized religion, using modern surveillance technology.
- lisper 11y ago
  > I wonder if you could get venture capital to start a modernized religion, using modern surveillance technology. For the love of all that is holy, please stop asking this question. Because the answer is almost certainly "yes". Roko's basilisk doesn't scare me. But the thought of a clone of the Church of Scientology that is technically competent scares the living shit out of me. Seriously, how would we defend against that?
  - jacquesm 11y ago
    The way religions and other factions have duked it out in the past: war. Most wars have been either about property, religion or both.
    - jqm 11y ago
      I think most wars involving religion have actually been about property.
      - pygy_ 11y ago
        Religion is such a nice tool to channel our tribal instincts. The neurohormone oxytocyn, undelies not only brotherhood but xenophobia, which probabaly explains why you can find people who are both deeply religious and xenophobic.
  - anon4 11y ago
    What if the clone went to war with the original?
  - Shorel 11y ago
    I wonder if the next major religion will be virtual reality based, and its first hundred years will be devoted to the destruction of any evidence against its principles. The last part of if it's what's even more scary, as it allegedly already happened once, at a great loss.
- PaulHoule 11y ago
jacquesm 11y ago
The Church of Scientology lost because of two reasons: (1) Karin Spaink (2) xs4all If not for those two they would have very likely won.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
johansch 11y ago
Germany is one of the few countries that gets destructive cults like these. I wish more countries would learn.
- cmurf 11y ago
  Please clarify. The German government doesn't recognize Scientology as a religion, but rather as an abusive business. Meanwhile in the U.S. ...
  - anon4 11y ago
    I think he means "get how to deal with them", or "see them for what they are".
    - johansch 11y ago
      I did.
- Grue3 11y ago
  Doesn't Germany have a "church tax" which is essentially supporting another destructive cult, except this time it's enforced by the government?
deftnerd 11y ago
I wonder if the internet has had a decrease in the power and occurrences of cults as a whole. I know the FBI has task forces that focus entirely on monitoring cult behavior. Any published statistics? I imagine that they might be wary of branding any "niche religion" as a cult to avoid accusations of violations of religious freedoms. Regardless, I wonder what the overall trend is now that information access and easy communications are so prevalent. Hell, North Korea's government can be seen to be operating as a kind of cult and even they are having difficulties with information leaking into their ecosystem through smuggled cheap Chinese phones and contraband radios.
- Steko 11y ago
  The internet seems to have been a boon to conspiracy types, racist and religious fanatics more generally. It might be more fair to say that it's hurt certain type of cults, such as the kind that relies on secrets/esoteric knowledge.
  - deftnerd 11y ago
    And likely the type that requires blockading members off from interaction from the world. Good points though. The internet has allowed people to create echo chambers to get a global pool of potential devotees. It's still a different situation from the stereotypical cult system where they cut you off from the world and strip away your individuality. Regardless, excellent point.
simonblack 11y ago
An interesting read is "Bare-faced Messiah" - an unauthorised biography of L. Ron Hubbard.

There was the alt.relgion.scientology wave and then anonymous got involved after that batshit crazy Tom Cruise video got leaked on Youtube and the church tried to hide it. One trouble with the church is their idea of of "ethics" is that when you are in trouble with the church you need to "Deliver an effective blow to the enemies of the group one has been pretending to be part of despite personal danger." This is like if you work at a pizza restaurant and you come in late for work or if you don't sell as many pizzas as you did last week you are expected to firebomb a competing pizza restaurant. And these people are so confused about why they have such consistently bad PR.

Animats 11y ago

From the article: “Scientology is cutting-edge technology for 1950. All of the most important policies were laid down by the 1960s.” Yes, which is their problem. Scientology is stuck with 1930s science. The "E-meter" is just an skin resistance ohmmeter, the least useful channel of a lie detector. If they were keeping up, they'd have the Scientology E-Meter Bracelet, a custom version of a Bluetooth fitness bracelet, reporting pulse, respiration, and skin resistance back to HQ in Clearwater, FL. They'd have auditing over Skype, server farms analyzing member communications and movements, and functional MRI machines at major Scientology centers. Even when they had a good idea, they didn't keep up with technology. In "How to Live though an Executive" (1953), L. Ron Hubbard describes what is instantly recognizable as a ticket system for handling problems. But it's all manual, with boards and hooks and paper cards and messengers. They never computerized that. A competing organization, the Rosicrucians, had the same problem. They used to have a "Science building" at Rosicrucian Park in San Jose (if you're in Silicon Valley, visit; they have great architecture, gardens, and museums), but it was stuck with 1950s high school physics experiments. Now they're building an Alchemy Museum. So retro. I wonder if you could get venture capital to start a modernized religion, using modern surveillance technology.

lisper 11y ago
> I wonder if you could get venture capital to start a modernized religion, using modern surveillance technology. For the love of all that is holy, please stop asking this question. Because the answer is almost certainly "yes". Roko's basilisk doesn't scare me. But the thought of a clone of the Church of Scientology that is technically competent scares the living shit out of me. Seriously, how would we defend against that?
- jacquesm 11y ago
  The way religions and other factions have duked it out in the past: war. Most wars have been either about property, religion or both.
  - jqm 11y ago
    I think most wars involving religion have actually been about property.
    - pygy_ 11y ago
      Religion is such a nice tool to channel our tribal instincts. The neurohormone oxytocyn, undelies not only brotherhood but xenophobia, which probabaly explains why you can find people who are both deeply religious and xenophobic.
- anon4 11y ago
  What if the clone went to war with the original?
- Shorel 11y ago
  I wonder if the next major religion will be virtual reality based, and its first hundred years will be devoted to the destruction of any evidence against its principles. The last part of if it's what's even more scary, as it allegedly already happened once, at a great loss.
PaulHoule 11y ago

jacquesm 11y ago

The Church of Scientology lost because of two reasons: (1) Karin Spaink (2) xs4all If not for those two they would have very likely won.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

johansch 11y ago

Germany is one of the few countries that gets destructive cults like these. I wish more countries would learn.

cmurf 11y ago
Please clarify. The German government doesn't recognize Scientology as a religion, but rather as an abusive business. Meanwhile in the U.S. ...
- anon4 11y ago
  I think he means "get how to deal with them", or "see them for what they are".
  - johansch 11y ago
    I did.
Grue3 11y ago
Doesn't Germany have a "church tax" which is essentially supporting another destructive cult, except this time it's enforced by the government?

deftnerd 11y ago

I wonder if the internet has had a decrease in the power and occurrences of cults as a whole. I know the FBI has task forces that focus entirely on monitoring cult behavior. Any published statistics? I imagine that they might be wary of branding any "niche religion" as a cult to avoid accusations of violations of religious freedoms. Regardless, I wonder what the overall trend is now that information access and easy communications are so prevalent. Hell, North Korea's government can be seen to be operating as a kind of cult and even they are having difficulties with information leaking into their ecosystem through smuggled cheap Chinese phones and contraband radios.

Steko 11y ago
The internet seems to have been a boon to conspiracy types, racist and religious fanatics more generally. It might be more fair to say that it's hurt certain type of cults, such as the kind that relies on secrets/esoteric knowledge.
- deftnerd 11y ago
  And likely the type that requires blockading members off from interaction from the world. Good points though. The internet has allowed people to create echo chambers to get a global pool of potential devotees. It's still a different situation from the stereotypical cult system where they cut you off from the world and strip away your individuality. Regardless, excellent point.

simonblack 11y ago

An interesting read is "Bare-faced Messiah" - an unauthorised biography of L. Ron Hubbard.