5 ms·

My first thought was generics since it's so old, but this is simply amazing: > With the price now high, other companies could conceivably make generic copies,

by jonknee 11y ago

My first thought was generics since it's so old, but this is simply amazing: > With the price now high, other companies could conceivably make generic copies, since patents have long expired. One factor that could discourage that option is that Daraprim’s distribution is now tightly controlled, making it harder for generic companies to get the samples they need for the required testing. > The switch from drugstores to controlled distribution was made in June by Impax, not by Turing. Still, controlled distribution was a strategy Mr. Shkreli talked about at his previous company as a way to thwart generics. How can this be true?

raverbashing 11y ago
Looks like 90% of drug regulations are BS sold with the excuse of "protecting the public" Importing a (tested) cheaper version would solve this price abuse pretty quickly but of course the government, AMA, etc loves to meddle (of course some control is necessary)
ithought 11y ago
If I remember correctly, when Provigil became generic, they bought the company producing the generic form. They also slightly changed the drug and patented a new form as Nuvigil. Last year, I asked my physician's assistant (I have never actually met my personal doctor) for a prescription and he told me that he didn't believe Provigil/Modafinil was even made anymore and tried almost emphatically to get me to take Nuvigil instead. I said no and that I'd try anyway. It was available and my insurance covered the Provigil ($750/month).
- jimrandomh 11y ago
  Generic modafinil has a retail price of around $40/month. Your insurance is getting ripped off.
- mirimir 11y ago
  Yes, but ... > The Federal Trade Commission has reached a settlement resolving the Commission’s antitrust suit charging Cephalon, Inc. with illegally blocking generic competition to its blockbuster sleep-disorder drug Provigil. The settlement ensures that Teva Pharmaceutical Industries, Ltd., which acquired Cephalon in 2012, will make a total of $1.2 billion available to compensate purchasers, including drug wholesalers, pharmacies, and insurers, who overpaid because of Cephalon’s illegal conduct. https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2015/05/ftc-settlement-cephalon-pay-delay-case-ensures-12-billion-ill https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2015/05/ftc-s...
rayiner 11y ago
How can what be true? The price of the old out of patent drug was too cheap and the target market too small for generic manufacturers to bother making it while it was widely available. Now that the prices have gone up they're having trouble getting samples to make a competing generic.
- jonknee 11y ago
  > Now that the prices have gone up they're having trouble getting samples to make a competing generic. It's not hard to get samples because the pricing went up, but because they moved it to a direct sales model and actively prevent the drugs from getting in the hands of a generic maker. It seems absurd.
cjlars 11y ago
>“This is still one of the smallest pharmaceutical products in the world” What Turing is doing is exploiting the natural monopoly that has formed for this drug. I was able to find only two global producers of this drug after a quick search (Turing and a generic Alibaba listing), which if true means Turing is the only game in town for a lot of supply channels. In addition, the medical market is relatively unable to adapt to these sorts of market fluctuations due to 1. supply chain being slow to respond (high regulation and insurance) 2. high need of patients themselves and 3. lack of knowledge about the drug and alternatives due to the infrequency of its prescription. What this adds up to is that Turing can buy up the manufacturing of this drug, jack up the price, and pocket the gains for a year or two while the market adapts. Make no mistake, the market will adapt and undercut him and he will destroy his monopoly by doing this, but he will also achieve perhaps many hundreds of percent ROI on his purchase of the drug. Afterwards he can sell the drug to another company and move on to another vulnerable natural monopoly in the drug space. >“It really doesn’t make sense to get any criticism for this.” It absolutely does, though. If he's able to exploit a pricing inefficiency as a producer, then the press can exploit him by hanging him out to dry in the public eye. Companies can, and should, face public relations campaigns against them for unethical, if legal, behavior.
- ikeboy 11y ago
  >It absolutely does, though. If he's able to exploit a pricing inefficiency as a producer, then the press can exploit him by hanging him out to dry in the public eye. Companies can, and should, face public relations campaigns against them for unethical, if legal, behavior. What does bad PR mean for them? Nobody's going to refuse treatment if they would otherwise afford it.
  - pixl97 11y ago
    I don't know much about monopolies, but, didn't Microsoft get in trouble for creating one? Also, back in the days of trustbusting were there not penalties for such actions? Is it in anyway against the law to do what they did? I can't answer these questions... but what the eye of the press can do is look deep into all of his practices and if there is anything illegal going on it my get noticed far quicker.

by jonknee 11y ago

raverbashing 11y ago

Looks like 90% of drug regulations are BS sold with the excuse of "protecting the public" Importing a (tested) cheaper version would solve this price abuse pretty quickly but of course the government, AMA, etc loves to meddle (of course some control is necessary)

ithought 11y ago

If I remember correctly, when Provigil became generic, they bought the company producing the generic form. They also slightly changed the drug and patented a new form as Nuvigil. Last year, I asked my physician's assistant (I have never actually met my personal doctor) for a prescription and he told me that he didn't believe Provigil/Modafinil was even made anymore and tried almost emphatically to get me to take Nuvigil instead. I said no and that I'd try anyway. It was available and my insurance covered the Provigil ($750/month).

jimrandomh 11y ago
Generic modafinil has a retail price of around $40/month. Your insurance is getting ripped off.
mirimir 11y ago
Yes, but ... > The Federal Trade Commission has reached a settlement resolving the Commission’s antitrust suit charging Cephalon, Inc. with illegally blocking generic competition to its blockbuster sleep-disorder drug Provigil. The settlement ensures that Teva Pharmaceutical Industries, Ltd., which acquired Cephalon in 2012, will make a total of $1.2 billion available to compensate purchasers, including drug wholesalers, pharmacies, and insurers, who overpaid because of Cephalon’s illegal conduct. https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2015/05/ftc-settlement-cephalon-pay-delay-case-ensures-12-billion-ill https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2015/05/ftc-s...

rayiner 11y ago

How can what be true? The price of the old out of patent drug was too cheap and the target market too small for generic manufacturers to bother making it while it was widely available. Now that the prices have gone up they're having trouble getting samples to make a competing generic.

jonknee 11y ago
> Now that the prices have gone up they're having trouble getting samples to make a competing generic. It's not hard to get samples because the pricing went up, but because they moved it to a direct sales model and actively prevent the drugs from getting in the hands of a generic maker. It seems absurd.

cjlars 11y ago

>“This is still one of the smallest pharmaceutical products in the world” What Turing is doing is exploiting the natural monopoly that has formed for this drug. I was able to find only two global producers of this drug after a quick search (Turing and a generic Alibaba listing), which if true means Turing is the only game in town for a lot of supply channels. In addition, the medical market is relatively unable to adapt to these sorts of market fluctuations due to 1. supply chain being slow to respond (high regulation and insurance) 2. high need of patients themselves and 3. lack of knowledge about the drug and alternatives due to the infrequency of its prescription. What this adds up to is that Turing can buy up the manufacturing of this drug, jack up the price, and pocket the gains for a year or two while the market adapts. Make no mistake, the market will adapt and undercut him and he will destroy his monopoly by doing this, but he will also achieve perhaps many hundreds of percent ROI on his purchase of the drug. Afterwards he can sell the drug to another company and move on to another vulnerable natural monopoly in the drug space. >“It really doesn’t make sense to get any criticism for this.” It absolutely does, though. If he's able to exploit a pricing inefficiency as a producer, then the press can exploit him by hanging him out to dry in the public eye. Companies can, and should, face public relations campaigns against them for unethical, if legal, behavior.

ikeboy 11y ago
>It absolutely does, though. If he's able to exploit a pricing inefficiency as a producer, then the press can exploit him by hanging him out to dry in the public eye. Companies can, and should, face public relations campaigns against them for unethical, if legal, behavior. What does bad PR mean for them? Nobody's going to refuse treatment if they would otherwise afford it.
- pixl97 11y ago
  I don't know much about monopolies, but, didn't Microsoft get in trouble for creating one? Also, back in the days of trustbusting were there not penalties for such actions? Is it in anyway against the law to do what they did? I can't answer these questions... but what the eye of the press can do is look deep into all of his practices and if there is anything illegal going on it my get noticed far quicker.