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Indians and Chinese save 20-30% of income. They do it by consuming vastly less than Americans. Americans simply view cutting consumption as unthinkable.

ThomPete 11y ago
And so will the Indians and the Chinese once they get used to consumption. Ask anyone who in India og China got used to a ar or a dishwasher whether they want to go back and I am pretty sure what the answer might be. You are actually just proving my point.
- yummyfajitas 11y ago
  I'm sure everyone likes to consume rather than save. The fact is that Indians and Chinese consume an order of magnitude less than Americans, and still manage to save. Americans could do the same if they were willing. Can you state clearly what your point actually is?
  - ThomPete 11y ago
    You are comparing a culture thats been in this game for almost a century with two countries who only experienced this kind of growth for a couple of decades. I think it's pretty obvious what my point is and I think you know it to. But in case you don't. The Indians and the Chinese will change this behavior over time. In fact I wouldn't even be surprised if you could already see this change in those who benefitted most from Chinese and Indian growth vs. those who aren't already benefitting. They are after all humans.
    - yummyfajitas 11y ago
      They might change their behavior. If they do, their retirement woes will be their own fault too. However, I see no evidence that wealthy nations having a low savings rate is a universal behavior. Singapore (as wealthy as the US) has a 50% savings rate, while Hong Kong, Japan and Korea have a 20-30% savings rate. http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GNS.ICTR.ZS http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GNS.ICTR.ZS
      - ThomPete 11y ago
        Who are they? Thats the whole point. Previous generations creates the environment that the next ones grow up in. The US isn't wealthy in any easily calculatable sense. They have been borrowing from it's grandchildren for a long time now. Most other western countries are doing the same. Some of those countries though have forced retirement savings but otherwise it's all borrowed money. Blaming any specific generation for the framework the previous one set up for them is just flat out ignoring what it means to be a human being living in a society.
- kamaal 11y ago
  Indian here, yes, we save a lot of money. This is because most of us born and raised in difficult financial circumstances. You are right, getting used to a way of life and then going back and cutting down on most of things can be very painful, and in many cases impossible. It's also very humiliating and can come down very hard emotionally on a person. Trust me when I say this, this happens very frequently in India too. I can give you endless examples of this kind of thing in India. So don't think its an US thing only. It happens in India too. But I blame the person for it. I'm currently in the US for a short term work assignment, I may stay here for a while. And I will go back to India. A few things that I see here and in India. These are common things I see in both countries. 1. Most people don't seem to even have a concept of saving. This is unacceptable. Basic working knowledge of how money works(Savings and investments) should be important and be known to every person. 2. I've seen people splurging when get money and then struggling when they don't have money. There needs to be a middle ground. You don't have to buy every new phone that launches, every new thing that is there in the super market. Buy what you need, not every thing you want. Also that vacation you take every year, is pointless. Why are you doing that anyway? If you don't own a home, much less don't even have enough money to survive a lay off, or pay for your kids education, why are you spending on pointless stuff. You should be seriously be rationing the way your spend your money. 3. Every person could be helped with improving their skills or learning something new every some period of time. If you are in a low income job. If you are a ware house worker, or a waiter at a restaurant, or any such job for that matter. You should focus on using your free time(Spending time with your dog/cat can wait) in learning a new skill. Learning anything. Repairing cars, plumbing, software do anything but invest in learning skills that pay better. 4. Retirement planning/process begins in the first hour of your first job. It's not something optional or good to do. It's something you should do at any cost, no matter what it takes. It ends when you actually retire. If you are not investing to retire as soon as your start working, you are setting yourself up for failure. And nobody but you are to blame for it. Sorry its not the government, or society's job to help you in situations like these, simply because everybody else is having it equally if not worse than you do. 5. Don't lose your connections with grassroots. Even if you are doing good financially. Make it a point to look at how difficult poor people are having it. This will help you understand why your retirement project is so important. The only issue I see in the US way of life is at time, mindless consumerism. I see yard sales and garage sales very often. Those are clear indications of people buying stuff they don't need. Lack of a middle ground in consumption.

ThomPete 11y ago

And so will the Indians and the Chinese once they get used to consumption. Ask anyone who in India og China got used to a ar or a dishwasher whether they want to go back and I am pretty sure what the answer might be. You are actually just proving my point.

yummyfajitas 11y ago
I'm sure everyone likes to consume rather than save. The fact is that Indians and Chinese consume an order of magnitude less than Americans, and still manage to save. Americans could do the same if they were willing. Can you state clearly what your point actually is?
- ThomPete 11y ago
  You are comparing a culture thats been in this game for almost a century with two countries who only experienced this kind of growth for a couple of decades. I think it's pretty obvious what my point is and I think you know it to. But in case you don't. The Indians and the Chinese will change this behavior over time. In fact I wouldn't even be surprised if you could already see this change in those who benefitted most from Chinese and Indian growth vs. those who aren't already benefitting. They are after all humans.
  - yummyfajitas 11y ago
    They might change their behavior. If they do, their retirement woes will be their own fault too. However, I see no evidence that wealthy nations having a low savings rate is a universal behavior. Singapore (as wealthy as the US) has a 50% savings rate, while Hong Kong, Japan and Korea have a 20-30% savings rate. http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GNS.ICTR.ZS http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GNS.ICTR.ZS
    - ThomPete 11y ago
      Who are they? Thats the whole point. Previous generations creates the environment that the next ones grow up in. The US isn't wealthy in any easily calculatable sense. They have been borrowing from it's grandchildren for a long time now. Most other western countries are doing the same. Some of those countries though have forced retirement savings but otherwise it's all borrowed money. Blaming any specific generation for the framework the previous one set up for them is just flat out ignoring what it means to be a human being living in a society.
kamaal 11y ago
Indian here, yes, we save a lot of money. This is because most of us born and raised in difficult financial circumstances. You are right, getting used to a way of life and then going back and cutting down on most of things can be very painful, and in many cases impossible. It's also very humiliating and can come down very hard emotionally on a person. Trust me when I say this, this happens very frequently in India too. I can give you endless examples of this kind of thing in India. So don't think its an US thing only. It happens in India too. But I blame the person for it. I'm currently in the US for a short term work assignment, I may stay here for a while. And I will go back to India. A few things that I see here and in India. These are common things I see in both countries. 1. Most people don't seem to even have a concept of saving. This is unacceptable. Basic working knowledge of how money works(Savings and investments) should be important and be known to every person. 2. I've seen people splurging when get money and then struggling when they don't have money. There needs to be a middle ground. You don't have to buy every new phone that launches, every new thing that is there in the super market. Buy what you need, not every thing you want. Also that vacation you take every year, is pointless. Why are you doing that anyway? If you don't own a home, much less don't even have enough money to survive a lay off, or pay for your kids education, why are you spending on pointless stuff. You should be seriously be rationing the way your spend your money. 3. Every person could be helped with improving their skills or learning something new every some period of time. If you are in a low income job. If you are a ware house worker, or a waiter at a restaurant, or any such job for that matter. You should focus on using your free time(Spending time with your dog/cat can wait) in learning a new skill. Learning anything. Repairing cars, plumbing, software do anything but invest in learning skills that pay better. 4. Retirement planning/process begins in the first hour of your first job. It's not something optional or good to do. It's something you should do at any cost, no matter what it takes. It ends when you actually retire. If you are not investing to retire as soon as your start working, you are setting yourself up for failure. And nobody but you are to blame for it. Sorry its not the government, or society's job to help you in situations like these, simply because everybody else is having it equally if not worse than you do. 5. Don't lose your connections with grassroots. Even if you are doing good financially. Make it a point to look at how difficult poor people are having it. This will help you understand why your retirement project is so important. The only issue I see in the US way of life is at time, mindless consumerism. I see yard sales and garage sales very often. Those are clear indications of people buying stuff they don't need. Lack of a middle ground in consumption.