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In some ways it's actually worse in that programmers seem completely oblivious to what's happening to them. They allow the media to call them "coders" and will

In some ways it's actually worse in that programmers seem completely oblivious to what's happening to them. They allow the media to call them "coders" and will actually argue with you when you point out how the term is being used to marginalize them. They actively support the boot camp movement and code.org initiatives. They give talks at conferences[1] and write blog posts saying there's no such thing as programmer talent and that programming is easy and anyone can do it (could you imagine a doctor or lawyer publicly asserting likewise about their professions?) My advice to devs: make as much money as you possibly can now. Take VCs and tech companies for all they're worth and don't leave a penny on the table, because these people are fixing to crush you under their boot. 1 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9486391 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9486391

xienze 11y ago
> They give talks at conferences[1] and write blog posts saying there's no such thing as programmer talent and that programming is easy and anyone can do it (could you imagine a doctor or lawyer publicly asserting likewise about their professions?) I think it's more akin to someone saying "anyone can paint" or "anyone can make music". Sure, on a very superficial level that's true. Anyone can make crude sketches or learn how to play Chopsticks. But a true aptitude for programming is the same as a true aptitude for art or music: not everyone can do it at that level.
- jonesb6 11y ago
  Except software engineering is both a science and an art. The statement 'anyone can make art' is widely accepted, but what about 'anyone can do science'? While anyone can pretty much do science the "I'm bad at math" or 'I suck at computers" rhetoric demonstrates a deep institutional feeling that science is fundamentally limited to only the most intelligent individuals. Thus by limiting SE to only being an art it devalues the skillset, proving OP's point IMO.
deleted 11y ago
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iofj 11y ago
It's not just programmers, it's the left in general. The left, in the US, is pro-immigration. The left is supposed to be champion of the poor, and one thing is damn sure : restricting employer's access to cheap labor (meaning restricting immigration + high import taxes + restrictions on global workforces) certainly help that a lot. Although I'm starting to see the same in Europe. The "old" leftist parties are vehemently anti-immigration, for exactly this reason : it helps their constituency. The "young" left is really almost libertarian, which I would normally classify under extreme right. But I think the problem America's two-party political system: sometimes it feels like it's extreme-right versus lunatic-right.

xienze 11y ago

> They give talks at conferences[1] and write blog posts saying there's no such thing as programmer talent and that programming is easy and anyone can do it (could you imagine a doctor or lawyer publicly asserting likewise about their professions?) I think it's more akin to someone saying "anyone can paint" or "anyone can make music". Sure, on a very superficial level that's true. Anyone can make crude sketches or learn how to play Chopsticks. But a true aptitude for programming is the same as a true aptitude for art or music: not everyone can do it at that level.

jonesb6 11y ago
Except software engineering is both a science and an art. The statement 'anyone can make art' is widely accepted, but what about 'anyone can do science'? While anyone can pretty much do science the "I'm bad at math" or 'I suck at computers" rhetoric demonstrates a deep institutional feeling that science is fundamentally limited to only the most intelligent individuals. Thus by limiting SE to only being an art it devalues the skillset, proving OP's point IMO.

deleted 11y ago

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iofj 11y ago

It's not just programmers, it's the left in general. The left, in the US, is pro-immigration. The left is supposed to be champion of the poor, and one thing is damn sure : restricting employer's access to cheap labor (meaning restricting immigration + high import taxes + restrictions on global workforces) certainly help that a lot. Although I'm starting to see the same in Europe. The "old" leftist parties are vehemently anti-immigration, for exactly this reason : it helps their constituency. The "young" left is really almost libertarian, which I would normally classify under extreme right. But I think the problem America's two-party political system: sometimes it feels like it's extreme-right versus lunatic-right.