4 ms·

40 CFR 86.1809-10 – Prohibition of defeat devices

24 points by wjarek 11y ago

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
javajosh 11y ago
Uh, what is this?
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- Sanddancer 11y ago
  The law Volkswagen seems to have broken -- http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/19/business/volkswagen-is-ordered-to-recall-nearly-500000-vehicles-over-emissions-software.html http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/19/business/volkswagen-is-ord...
- PhasmaFelis 11y ago
  Shhh. When Hacker News links to something incomprehensible with no explanation, you're supposed to Google it yourself and then pretend you knew all along.
  - dogma1138 11y ago
    Or be like every news outlet out there and pretend this is a known and common term and just use in quotes. All 10 articles I've seen about the VW thing, each and everyone of them used 'defeat device' in either double or single quotes without explaining what it is just that the EPA doesn't like it. From autonews to the various posts and times and the editorials no one explained it. Heck even Google doesn't really knows it, i found the explanation for this only in a site containing definitions for shipping (as in a Ship) terminologies.
  - eugenekolo2 11y ago
    Sadly see this case a bit too often on HN.
joosters 11y ago
I find it worrying that there is a known term 'defeat device' for these things. Until yesterday, I didn't know that any vehicle manufacturer had done this. Now, it's apparently common enough that the form of cheating has a recognised name...
- simoncion 11y ago
  > I find it worrying that there is a known term 'defeat device' for these things. Corporations will often attempt to either circumvent or break the spirit of laws and regulations that reduce their profit margins. They've been doing this for aeons. Keep this in mind the next time a BigCo (or LittleCo with disguised ties to a BigCo) is trying to rally sentiment with the "Too Much Regulation is Killing My Business!" banner. [0] If the average corporation was a person, it would likely be the worst person I have ever had the displeasure of meeting. [0] General notice: Please read that sentence very closely before you think about rebutting it. If it caused you to take umbrage, you may be pattern matching on the white noise between the lines.
  - cbd1984 11y ago
    > Keep this in mind the next time a BigCo (or LittleCo with disguised ties to a BigCo) is trying to rally sentiment with the "Too Much Regulation is Killing My Business!" banner. Or just a LittleCo, with no special ties to anyone.
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
kahirsch 11y ago
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/40/86.1803-01 https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/40/86.1803-01 Defeat device means an auxiliary emission control device (AECD) that reduces the effectiveness of the emission control system under conditions which may reasonably be expected to be encountered in normal vehicle operation and use, unless: (1) Such conditions are substantially included in the Federal emission test procedure; (2) The need for the AECD is justified in terms of protecting the vehicle against damage or accident; or (3) The AECD does not go beyond the requirements of engine starting.
ArkyBeagle 11y ago
Is this more specific to diesel than gasoline? I get the vague impression it is. The problem with that is that engine temp greatly effects the combustion ... profile in diesel engines.

24 points by wjarek 11y ago

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

javajosh 11y ago

Uh, what is this?

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
Sanddancer 11y ago
The law Volkswagen seems to have broken -- http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/19/business/volkswagen-is-ordered-to-recall-nearly-500000-vehicles-over-emissions-software.html http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/19/business/volkswagen-is-ord...
PhasmaFelis 11y ago
Shhh. When Hacker News links to something incomprehensible with no explanation, you're supposed to Google it yourself and then pretend you knew all along.
- dogma1138 11y ago
  Or be like every news outlet out there and pretend this is a known and common term and just use in quotes. All 10 articles I've seen about the VW thing, each and everyone of them used 'defeat device' in either double or single quotes without explaining what it is just that the EPA doesn't like it. From autonews to the various posts and times and the editorials no one explained it. Heck even Google doesn't really knows it, i found the explanation for this only in a site containing definitions for shipping (as in a Ship) terminologies.
- eugenekolo2 11y ago
  Sadly see this case a bit too often on HN.

joosters 11y ago

I find it worrying that there is a known term 'defeat device' for these things. Until yesterday, I didn't know that any vehicle manufacturer had done this. Now, it's apparently common enough that the form of cheating has a recognised name...

simoncion 11y ago
> I find it worrying that there is a known term 'defeat device' for these things. Corporations will often attempt to either circumvent or break the spirit of laws and regulations that reduce their profit margins. They've been doing this for aeons. Keep this in mind the next time a BigCo (or LittleCo with disguised ties to a BigCo) is trying to rally sentiment with the "Too Much Regulation is Killing My Business!" banner. [0] If the average corporation was a person, it would likely be the worst person I have ever had the displeasure of meeting. [0] General notice: Please read that sentence very closely before you think about rebutting it. If it caused you to take umbrage, you may be pattern matching on the white noise between the lines.
- cbd1984 11y ago
  > Keep this in mind the next time a BigCo (or LittleCo with disguised ties to a BigCo) is trying to rally sentiment with the "Too Much Regulation is Killing My Business!" banner. Or just a LittleCo, with no special ties to anyone.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]

kahirsch 11y ago

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/40/86.1803-01 https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/40/86.1803-01 Defeat device means an auxiliary emission control device (AECD) that reduces the effectiveness of the emission control system under conditions which may reasonably be expected to be encountered in normal vehicle operation and use, unless: (1) Such conditions are substantially included in the Federal emission test procedure; (2) The need for the AECD is justified in terms of protecting the vehicle against damage or accident; or (3) The AECD does not go beyond the requirements of engine starting.

ArkyBeagle 11y ago

Is this more specific to diesel than gasoline? I get the vague impression it is. The problem with that is that engine temp greatly effects the combustion ... profile in diesel engines.