5 ms·

The more years I live on this planet the more I realise how smoke and mirrors a lot of things are. Its all an illusion??

chillingeffect 11y ago
Yeah, it's mostly all an illusion and mostly it works for most people. The standard script our rulers provide gratifies our emotions, giving us just enough safety to raise our children and just enough of a glimpse into the fearful world (think: police shows) to make us never question them while the billionaire rulers fly from house to house, from beach to beach, with a short stop at the schools to make sure as few as possible of us learn how to self-govern (hint: by emphasizing answers rather than questions). If you look, at least at American music culture since the beginning of the industrial age, you'll see cycles of people seeking authenticity (the beats, hippies, hip-hop, grunge, etc). Generally, that authenticity gives birth to some consumable form, such as the stuff that passes for hip-hop nowadays, as well as the "corporate grundge" of the 90s. I'm not as familiar with other eras, but I understand authenticity to be a huge point of critique w/r/t 60s pop culture. My favorite (ironically-meant) part of this article was when they pointed out the music was engineered for shopping malls, as opposed to home stereos and that it is "more captivating than virtuoso musicians." The fact that a cybernetic artifact (pop-by-committee) can supplant the intimacy of a live performance by a master is astonishing and disturbing. I hope it's not true... but if you think about it, even the concept of a virtuoso is an economic artifact of a ruler/leader with excess capital to support the specialization of a lifelong performer. I believe the same or more authenticity can be had from amateurs or mid-level players, although that's probably my own bias.
- venomsnake 11y ago
  Punk -> Metal -> Hair Metal/Ballads
- philwelch 11y ago
  > If you look, at least at American music culture since the beginning of the industrial age, you'll see cycles of people seeking authenticity (the beats, hippies, hip-hop, grunge, etc). Generally, that authenticity gives birth to some consumable form, such as the stuff that passes for hip-hop nowadays, as well as the "corporate grundge" of the 90s. I'm not as familiar with other eras, but I understand authenticity to be a huge point of critique w/r/t 60s pop culture. I think this is the beginning of understanding what is so loathsome about hipsters. Hipsters are some awful Hegelian synthesis of the impulse towards authenticity and the culture of irony. Hipsters mostly express the urge for authenticity as a type of consumerism, but then immediately undermine authenticity through their commitment to irony.
- mpdehaan2 11y ago
  I'm not a songwriter, but I play a bit around with synths and stuff for fun a bit. What little I've learned implies crafting a good hook is definitely an equation (that I fail at), and some people in the music industry have figured out that equation better than most people, in a way that targets a large swath of people's brains really well. It goes beyond notes to timbres, themes, lyric content, etc. It's definitely an art - and the writers of such things probably deserve a lot more money than the auto-tuned singers that get really rich from it do. As people who write music/songs/etc refine their craft, they can choose to make something that sounds the best to them, or they can figure out the equations for other people, and sometimes that music that works for all those masses of people also works for them, and if so, that's still pretty darn authentic and just trying to be good. Ergo, I don't think trying to make a song better is a loss in authenticity, but maybe intentionally going in and reusing the same formula, rather than experimenting, is a bit of the same thing we'd say about a band that always sounds the same. If you just chase success, rather than soul or experimentation, you risk something - or at least you risk the opportunity for creating something new that could be even better. Likely though, you're still making a lot of people happy. I think all of these folks are still experimenting, trying to refine that equation, but it's just music that personally doesn't target me, and that's ok. For some reason it works for giant chunks of people, but music I like probably often doesn't work for them.
sixQuarks 11y ago
Music is targeted for the masses. Politics is targeted for the masses. Music is manufactured. Can you guess what else is manufactured?
- javert 11y ago
  Hmm... Noam Chomsky books? For gullible college students?
- kalleboo 11y ago
  Hacker News comments?
cbd1984 11y ago
Yes, some music is literally made to be popular. Some people desire to be famous. Some people desire to be rich. Some people have mainstream tastes, believe it or not. It's difficult to imagine, I know, but the reason million-selling hit singles are called that is because on the close order of a million people purchased them. Other music is made for the sheer joy of making music, and is never released. You very likely won't hear it, though, because it was never released. Perhaps someone should disrupt that, and find a way to release that music, maybe in a fashion which generates profits for the musicians and the people who establish the businesses needed to release and distribute music. Sounds simple enough.
InclinedPlane 11y ago
There are entire communities and industries of artists, musicians, etc. that are outside the popular media machinery. There's plenty of authentic art out there, and it's plenty popular, but things like radio and tv provide a very, very narrow view on the world, like looking through a straw.
atom-morgan 11y ago
It's like working for a digital agency and realizing how little work Big Name companies actually do with respect to their brand. So much of it is handled by other companies.

chillingeffect 11y ago

Yeah, it's mostly all an illusion and mostly it works for most people. The standard script our rulers provide gratifies our emotions, giving us just enough safety to raise our children and just enough of a glimpse into the fearful world (think: police shows) to make us never question them while the billionaire rulers fly from house to house, from beach to beach, with a short stop at the schools to make sure as few as possible of us learn how to self-govern (hint: by emphasizing answers rather than questions). If you look, at least at American music culture since the beginning of the industrial age, you'll see cycles of people seeking authenticity (the beats, hippies, hip-hop, grunge, etc). Generally, that authenticity gives birth to some consumable form, such as the stuff that passes for hip-hop nowadays, as well as the "corporate grundge" of the 90s. I'm not as familiar with other eras, but I understand authenticity to be a huge point of critique w/r/t 60s pop culture. My favorite (ironically-meant) part of this article was when they pointed out the music was engineered for shopping malls, as opposed to home stereos and that it is "more captivating than virtuoso musicians." The fact that a cybernetic artifact (pop-by-committee) can supplant the intimacy of a live performance by a master is astonishing and disturbing. I hope it's not true... but if you think about it, even the concept of a virtuoso is an economic artifact of a ruler/leader with excess capital to support the specialization of a lifelong performer. I believe the same or more authenticity can be had from amateurs or mid-level players, although that's probably my own bias.

venomsnake 11y ago
Punk -> Metal -> Hair Metal/Ballads
philwelch 11y ago
> If you look, at least at American music culture since the beginning of the industrial age, you'll see cycles of people seeking authenticity (the beats, hippies, hip-hop, grunge, etc). Generally, that authenticity gives birth to some consumable form, such as the stuff that passes for hip-hop nowadays, as well as the "corporate grundge" of the 90s. I'm not as familiar with other eras, but I understand authenticity to be a huge point of critique w/r/t 60s pop culture. I think this is the beginning of understanding what is so loathsome about hipsters. Hipsters are some awful Hegelian synthesis of the impulse towards authenticity and the culture of irony. Hipsters mostly express the urge for authenticity as a type of consumerism, but then immediately undermine authenticity through their commitment to irony.
mpdehaan2 11y ago
I'm not a songwriter, but I play a bit around with synths and stuff for fun a bit. What little I've learned implies crafting a good hook is definitely an equation (that I fail at), and some people in the music industry have figured out that equation better than most people, in a way that targets a large swath of people's brains really well. It goes beyond notes to timbres, themes, lyric content, etc. It's definitely an art - and the writers of such things probably deserve a lot more money than the auto-tuned singers that get really rich from it do. As people who write music/songs/etc refine their craft, they can choose to make something that sounds the best to them, or they can figure out the equations for other people, and sometimes that music that works for all those masses of people also works for them, and if so, that's still pretty darn authentic and just trying to be good. Ergo, I don't think trying to make a song better is a loss in authenticity, but maybe intentionally going in and reusing the same formula, rather than experimenting, is a bit of the same thing we'd say about a band that always sounds the same. If you just chase success, rather than soul or experimentation, you risk something - or at least you risk the opportunity for creating something new that could be even better. Likely though, you're still making a lot of people happy. I think all of these folks are still experimenting, trying to refine that equation, but it's just music that personally doesn't target me, and that's ok. For some reason it works for giant chunks of people, but music I like probably often doesn't work for them.

sixQuarks 11y ago

Music is targeted for the masses. Politics is targeted for the masses. Music is manufactured. Can you guess what else is manufactured?

javert 11y ago
Hmm... Noam Chomsky books? For gullible college students?
kalleboo 11y ago
Hacker News comments?

cbd1984 11y ago

Yes, some music is literally made to be popular. Some people desire to be famous. Some people desire to be rich. Some people have mainstream tastes, believe it or not. It's difficult to imagine, I know, but the reason million-selling hit singles are called that is because on the close order of a million people purchased them. Other music is made for the sheer joy of making music, and is never released. You very likely won't hear it, though, because it was never released. Perhaps someone should disrupt that, and find a way to release that music, maybe in a fashion which generates profits for the musicians and the people who establish the businesses needed to release and distribute music. Sounds simple enough.

InclinedPlane 11y ago

There are entire communities and industries of artists, musicians, etc. that are outside the popular media machinery. There's plenty of authentic art out there, and it's plenty popular, but things like radio and tv provide a very, very narrow view on the world, like looking through a straw.

atom-morgan 11y ago

It's like working for a digital agency and realizing how little work Big Name companies actually do with respect to their brand. So much of it is handled by other companies.