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One more problem is pedestrian crossings. With a traditional intersection, only cars changing direction cross the path of the pedestrian. On a roundabout, when

by anon4 11y ago

One more problem is pedestrian crossings. With a traditional intersection, only cars changing direction cross the path of the pedestrian. On a roundabout, when you cross one of the exit arms, your path is constantly crossed by drivers going straight through, doing a right turn, doing a left turn and doing a U-turn. They are all driving at full speed too, rather than just starting from a stop. It is a delicate game where you gently put your foot forward to signal your intent, wait for the incoming traffic to stop for a moment, then dash to the other side. This is generally my experience, but maybe in other places drivers treat pedestrians on zebras differently.

mrb 11y ago
"your path is constantly crossed by drivers going straight through, doing a right turn" It's only crossed by the same amount of drivers than a regular intersection: those going on the same street as you. "They are all driving at full speed" Actually no, the curve of the roundabout (for properly designed roundabouts) slows them down. In fact a traditional intersection causes them to drive even faster since many drivers go in a straight line. "It is a delicate game" The nice thing about roundabouts is that you only have to check for cars coming from ONE direction, as opposed to a traditional intersection where cars can come from behind you, from your side, or from in front of you. So crossing a roundabout requires less cognitive bandwidth.
- _delirium 11y ago
  At busier intersections I find traffic signals much nicer as a pedestrian, because while the same number of cars do cross your path, they don't cross your path when you have the walk signal, which is when you'd actually be crossing the intersection. It gives you a nice break in traffic rather than having to push your way out and hope traffic stops for you. This is assuming no right turns on red (as in most of Europe), and left turns only on left-turn signal (typical in cities, at least on major roads). In those cases, there is no traffic at all allowed to enter the crosswalk when you have the walk signal, so you have an exclusive protected crossing. At lower-traffic intersections the difference is less pronounced, partly because it's easier to force your way across even without a signal, and partly because the signals at less busy intersections may not give pedestrians an exclusive period in the cycle anyway (e.g. by allowing left turns on a regular green). This might be Copenhagen-specific, but in Copenhagen I also find roundabouts make the pedestrian/bicyclist interaction less clear. At regular intersections, bicyclists can't cross your path when you have a walk signal, but at roundabouts they seem to just go through and are less likely than cars to stop preemptively when they see a pedestrian wanting to cross. Roundabouts aren't very common though, so maybe this would be worked out if there were more of them.
  - mrb 11y ago
    "I find traffic signals much nicer as a pedestrian" You may find them nicer, but they are not safer. The data already shows roundabouts are safer. As the article reports: "researchers have found that roundabouts reduce [...] pedestrian/cyclist incidents by 40%"
    - _delirium 11y ago
      That study was specifically in the USA, whose signalized intersections are not really pedestrian-friendly to begin with. For example right-on-red is permitted almost everywhere (except NYC). In that context, I could believe that roundabouts are less bad. I would be interested to see how the comparison generalizes, for example a study of roundabout vs. signalized intersections in Denmark or Germany. It's still of course possible my feeling of more safety at signalized intersections in Denmark is wrong. Sweden takes an interesting approach in combining both. There are a lot of roundabouts, but most of them also have a signal at the entrance. This makes it easy to cross as a pedestrian, because your crosswalk at the roundabout entrance is protected with an exclusive signal cycle. That forces a gap in traffic instead of you having to force the gap by trying to step out. Possibly even safer than either option alone?
      - Tomte 11y ago
        I don't have a study at hand, but in Germany, too, it is generally accepted that roundabouts are safer.
brc 11y ago
You're wrong about pedestrians. The crossings are upstream of the roundabout and you only have to deal with two directions of traffic.
- anon4 11y ago
  Not the one I have to cross. The crossings are right where the exit/entry roads begin/end. Which makes sense, since that's the natural progression of the sidewalk and there are two bus stops on the roundabout, so people have to cross right there to reach them. A picture is usually worth a thousand words: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.6686834,23.366936,3a,75y,165.99h,74.1t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sUuz8fR5bZ2q4efTk-7TtXw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en https://www.google.com/maps/@42.6686834,23.366936,3a,75y,165...

by anon4 11y ago

mrb 11y ago

"your path is constantly crossed by drivers going straight through, doing a right turn" It's only crossed by the same amount of drivers than a regular intersection: those going on the same street as you. "They are all driving at full speed" Actually no, the curve of the roundabout (for properly designed roundabouts) slows them down. In fact a traditional intersection causes them to drive even faster since many drivers go in a straight line. "It is a delicate game" The nice thing about roundabouts is that you only have to check for cars coming from ONE direction, as opposed to a traditional intersection where cars can come from behind you, from your side, or from in front of you. So crossing a roundabout requires less cognitive bandwidth.

_delirium 11y ago
At busier intersections I find traffic signals much nicer as a pedestrian, because while the same number of cars do cross your path, they don't cross your path when you have the walk signal, which is when you'd actually be crossing the intersection. It gives you a nice break in traffic rather than having to push your way out and hope traffic stops for you. This is assuming no right turns on red (as in most of Europe), and left turns only on left-turn signal (typical in cities, at least on major roads). In those cases, there is no traffic at all allowed to enter the crosswalk when you have the walk signal, so you have an exclusive protected crossing. At lower-traffic intersections the difference is less pronounced, partly because it's easier to force your way across even without a signal, and partly because the signals at less busy intersections may not give pedestrians an exclusive period in the cycle anyway (e.g. by allowing left turns on a regular green). This might be Copenhagen-specific, but in Copenhagen I also find roundabouts make the pedestrian/bicyclist interaction less clear. At regular intersections, bicyclists can't cross your path when you have a walk signal, but at roundabouts they seem to just go through and are less likely than cars to stop preemptively when they see a pedestrian wanting to cross. Roundabouts aren't very common though, so maybe this would be worked out if there were more of them.
- mrb 11y ago
  "I find traffic signals much nicer as a pedestrian" You may find them nicer, but they are not safer. The data already shows roundabouts are safer. As the article reports: "researchers have found that roundabouts reduce [...] pedestrian/cyclist incidents by 40%"
  - _delirium 11y ago
    That study was specifically in the USA, whose signalized intersections are not really pedestrian-friendly to begin with. For example right-on-red is permitted almost everywhere (except NYC). In that context, I could believe that roundabouts are less bad. I would be interested to see how the comparison generalizes, for example a study of roundabout vs. signalized intersections in Denmark or Germany. It's still of course possible my feeling of more safety at signalized intersections in Denmark is wrong. Sweden takes an interesting approach in combining both. There are a lot of roundabouts, but most of them also have a signal at the entrance. This makes it easy to cross as a pedestrian, because your crosswalk at the roundabout entrance is protected with an exclusive signal cycle. That forces a gap in traffic instead of you having to force the gap by trying to step out. Possibly even safer than either option alone?
    - Tomte 11y ago
      I don't have a study at hand, but in Germany, too, it is generally accepted that roundabouts are safer.

brc 11y ago

You're wrong about pedestrians. The crossings are upstream of the roundabout and you only have to deal with two directions of traffic.

anon4 11y ago
Not the one I have to cross. The crossings are right where the exit/entry roads begin/end. Which makes sense, since that's the natural progression of the sidewalk and there are two bus stops on the roundabout, so people have to cross right there to reach them. A picture is usually worth a thousand words: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.6686834,23.366936,3a,75y,165.99h,74.1t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sUuz8fR5bZ2q4efTk-7TtXw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en https://www.google.com/maps/@42.6686834,23.366936,3a,75y,165...