3 ms·

I'm a motorcyclist and I'm downvoting this fallacy. If this were seriously the case then good beginner bikes like the Ninja 250 and Honda CBR250R would be unsaf

by jboggan 11y ago

I'm a motorcyclist and I'm downvoting this fallacy. If this were seriously the case then good beginner bikes like the Ninja 250 and Honda CBR250R would be unsafe, especially for new riders. Enjoy your loud pipes if you like (I do on my throaty Aprilia) but don't pretend they give you any safety benefit to balance the annoyance it causes some people.

luckydude 11y ago
I too am a motorcyclist (85K miles of sport bike riding, Sunday morning ride to Pt Reyes was a lot of that, current stable is r1200gs and wr250r). I despise loud pipes, just frigging hate them. But I live in deer country (Santa Cruz mountains) and I've hit a deer at speed on the GS (did not wipe out, lifted the front end and had my front tire hit it square in the hind quarters, spun the deer around, I dropped the front wheel down and did a very shaky coast to a stop. My hands were shaking like a vibrator on steroids). After that experience I really wonder if loud pipes would have scared the deer off. I tend to doubt it, I've not installed a louder pipe, but it's made me less pissed off at the loud pipe people. Not a lot less pissed off, but some. BTW, shoutout to the Ninja 250 and especially the 500 version. I had two of the EX500's and those were by far my favorite sport bikes. Lots of torque, could pull any 600rr off the light (yeah, the 600 was blasting by me 2/3rds of the way down the block, but do you really want to ride a sewing machine? I don't. Loved my 500 twins.)
- emp_zealoth 11y ago
  I despise overly loud pipes - like, you have to scream loud. But,Ive been riding a bike a lot as well. Way too quiet exhausts (like EU is constantly pushing on us) are dangerous - ive seen it myself - my dad with a louder exhaust passes with no issues and I, silently, get cut off and nearly run off the road by a guy that assumes that mirrors are for pussies. It happened quite a few times already.
  - luckydude 11y ago
    Annoying lights help. I ride with some quite bright led lights I got off of advrider.com and I think they help. You could get the flashy kind that bicyclists use, those definitely make them more visible.
  - plonh 11y ago
    If the other driver didn't use a mirror, how is a bike more threatened than a car?
    - emp_zealoth 11y ago
      If you are in a modern EU/Korean/Japanese car, you would have to be rather unlucky or going fast if anything was to happen to you. Also,it takes a lot more to actually drive you off the road - you can literally push back. On a motorbike all it takes is a bump,and, you have to be lucky not to end up in hospital. Btw in no way im for window rattling. However, EURO4/5, I would not be surprised if my vacuum cleaner was louder
bardworx 11y ago
TL;DR - I stand by my comment, loud bikes helps people hear you but that doesn't mean you have to be EXTRA LOUD to be cool. I understand the point you are trying to make, and perhaps I wasn't very clear in my off-hand comment. I agree that overly loud bikes are annoying, however, as I stated before, sound is a necessary evil[0]. Do I believe that motorcycles should use straight pipes and increase their sound output? NO, in fact its quite annoying. However, louder bikes will get your attention. In fact, in reference to [0], there is a standard that some vehicles had to INCREASE their decibel output because of less risk to pedestrians. This isn't an apples-to-apples comparison as this study was mainly geared towards electric vehicles, but it did state that vehicles should have an output of ~ 55dB for pedestrian safety (page 102). Secondly, I couldn't find good stats on motorcycle decibel output, but I did find a study of some motorcycles and their average output[1]. What I learned is that most bikes are fairly equal with regard to output and all are at, or above the, legal limit[2]. I took a single bike you pointed out `Honda CBR250R` and was curious how the noise output performed to a Harley: `Honda CBR250R`: [3] - With dB-Killer fitted: 86 dB @ 4,250 rpm - Without dB-Killer fitted: 94 dB @ 4,250rpm 2006 Softail Standard 1,400 cc: [4] - 97 decibels at idle - 102 decibels at cruising speed - 111 decibels revved So what it appears to me is that most motorcycles are `roughly` the same decibel output and that having a vehicle that outputs sound to make yourself known to other riders is beneficial. Should you be increasing the sound trying to be cool? No, I don't think so. In fact its annoying when the 5 Harleys are sitting outside my window on Friday night revving their engines to be "cool". [0] - http://www.motorcycledaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Quiet_Vehicles_NPRM.pdf http://www.motorcycledaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Qu... [1] - http://audiologyworld.net/img/rnhposter.pdf http://audiologyworld.net/img/rnhposter.pdf [2] - http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/XXI/266/266-59-a.htm http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/XXI/266/266-59-a.ht... [3] - http://www.autoevolution.com/news/honda-cbr250r-gets-street-sport-exhausts-from-yoshimura-36558.html http://www.autoevolution.com/news/honda-cbr250r-gets-street-... [4] - http://lic.abateflorida.com/Library/Library/cycle_news__noise_study.htm http://lic.abateflorida.com/Library/Library/cycle_news__nois...
- jboggan 11y ago
  One, decibels are a logarithmic unit. Two, you are comparing factory exhausts on the Harley meant to comply with noise regulations with top of the line aftermarket race exhausts for the Honda (which is probably as loud as you could make the Honda without removing the pipes entirely). They are not anywhere near each other - and the data in [1] really makes that point, I'm not sure how you concluded that most motorcycles are anywhere near each other in sound output.
kimburgess 11y ago
+1 here. I have two bikes: one is a custom tracker (read: bunch of parts bolted together into something that runs... mostly) with open pipes. The other is a Zero SR (electric). Although anecdotal, I notice no difference in driver perception of my presence, except in stand still traffic, where it is least needed. With the level of acoustic engineering that goes into modern vehicles specifically to block out external noise, combined with radio / in car entertainment, relying on other drivers being able to position you from audio is a bad idea. Now if bikes were to be fitted with cell phone jammers, that I could get on board with.
- brc 11y ago
  Exactly - in my car with people talking and radio on, you won't hear a bike until it is so close it doesn't make any difference.

by jboggan 11y ago

luckydude 11y ago

I too am a motorcyclist (85K miles of sport bike riding, Sunday morning ride to Pt Reyes was a lot of that, current stable is r1200gs and wr250r). I despise loud pipes, just frigging hate them. But I live in deer country (Santa Cruz mountains) and I've hit a deer at speed on the GS (did not wipe out, lifted the front end and had my front tire hit it square in the hind quarters, spun the deer around, I dropped the front wheel down and did a very shaky coast to a stop. My hands were shaking like a vibrator on steroids). After that experience I really wonder if loud pipes would have scared the deer off. I tend to doubt it, I've not installed a louder pipe, but it's made me less pissed off at the loud pipe people. Not a lot less pissed off, but some. BTW, shoutout to the Ninja 250 and especially the 500 version. I had two of the EX500's and those were by far my favorite sport bikes. Lots of torque, could pull any 600rr off the light (yeah, the 600 was blasting by me 2/3rds of the way down the block, but do you really want to ride a sewing machine? I don't. Loved my 500 twins.)

emp_zealoth 11y ago
I despise overly loud pipes - like, you have to scream loud. But,Ive been riding a bike a lot as well. Way too quiet exhausts (like EU is constantly pushing on us) are dangerous - ive seen it myself - my dad with a louder exhaust passes with no issues and I, silently, get cut off and nearly run off the road by a guy that assumes that mirrors are for pussies. It happened quite a few times already.
- luckydude 11y ago
  Annoying lights help. I ride with some quite bright led lights I got off of advrider.com and I think they help. You could get the flashy kind that bicyclists use, those definitely make them more visible.
- plonh 11y ago
  If the other driver didn't use a mirror, how is a bike more threatened than a car?
  - emp_zealoth 11y ago
    If you are in a modern EU/Korean/Japanese car, you would have to be rather unlucky or going fast if anything was to happen to you. Also,it takes a lot more to actually drive you off the road - you can literally push back. On a motorbike all it takes is a bump,and, you have to be lucky not to end up in hospital. Btw in no way im for window rattling. However, EURO4/5, I would not be surprised if my vacuum cleaner was louder

bardworx 11y ago

TL;DR - I stand by my comment, loud bikes helps people hear you but that doesn't mean you have to be EXTRA LOUD to be cool. I understand the point you are trying to make, and perhaps I wasn't very clear in my off-hand comment. I agree that overly loud bikes are annoying, however, as I stated before, sound is a necessary evil[0]. Do I believe that motorcycles should use straight pipes and increase their sound output? NO, in fact its quite annoying. However, louder bikes will get your attention. In fact, in reference to [0], there is a standard that some vehicles had to INCREASE their decibel output because of less risk to pedestrians. This isn't an apples-to-apples comparison as this study was mainly geared towards electric vehicles, but it did state that vehicles should have an output of ~ 55dB for pedestrian safety (page 102). Secondly, I couldn't find good stats on motorcycle decibel output, but I did find a study of some motorcycles and their average output[1]. What I learned is that most bikes are fairly equal with regard to output and all are at, or above the, legal limit[2]. I took a single bike you pointed out `Honda CBR250R` and was curious how the noise output performed to a Harley: `Honda CBR250R`: [3] - With dB-Killer fitted: 86 dB @ 4,250 rpm - Without dB-Killer fitted: 94 dB @ 4,250rpm 2006 Softail Standard 1,400 cc: [4] - 97 decibels at idle - 102 decibels at cruising speed - 111 decibels revved So what it appears to me is that most motorcycles are `roughly` the same decibel output and that having a vehicle that outputs sound to make yourself known to other riders is beneficial. Should you be increasing the sound trying to be cool? No, I don't think so. In fact its annoying when the 5 Harleys are sitting outside my window on Friday night revving their engines to be "cool". [0] - http://www.motorcycledaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Quiet_Vehicles_NPRM.pdf http://www.motorcycledaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Qu... [1] - http://audiologyworld.net/img/rnhposter.pdf http://audiologyworld.net/img/rnhposter.pdf [2] - http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/XXI/266/266-59-a.htm http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/XXI/266/266-59-a.ht... [3] - http://www.autoevolution.com/news/honda-cbr250r-gets-street-sport-exhausts-from-yoshimura-36558.html http://www.autoevolution.com/news/honda-cbr250r-gets-street-... [4] - http://lic.abateflorida.com/Library/Library/cycle_news__noise_study.htm http://lic.abateflorida.com/Library/Library/cycle_news__nois...

jboggan 11y ago
One, decibels are a logarithmic unit. Two, you are comparing factory exhausts on the Harley meant to comply with noise regulations with top of the line aftermarket race exhausts for the Honda (which is probably as loud as you could make the Honda without removing the pipes entirely). They are not anywhere near each other - and the data in [1] really makes that point, I'm not sure how you concluded that most motorcycles are anywhere near each other in sound output.

kimburgess 11y ago

+1 here. I have two bikes: one is a custom tracker (read: bunch of parts bolted together into something that runs... mostly) with open pipes. The other is a Zero SR (electric). Although anecdotal, I notice no difference in driver perception of my presence, except in stand still traffic, where it is least needed. With the level of acoustic engineering that goes into modern vehicles specifically to block out external noise, combined with radio / in car entertainment, relying on other drivers being able to position you from audio is a bad idea. Now if bikes were to be fitted with cell phone jammers, that I could get on board with.

brc 11y ago
Exactly - in my car with people talking and radio on, you won't hear a bike until it is so close it doesn't make any difference.