4 ms·

I suspect very few commenters here have visited China lately. There is a ton of consumer spending in China. Apple stores everywhere in big cities, way more than

I suspect very few commenters here have visited China lately. There is a ton of consumer spending in China. Apple stores everywhere in big cities, way more than London or New York for example. The biggest name luxury brands are all over the place. Cost of living in Shanghai is on par w San Francisco, Beijing is probably higher.

hga 11y ago
Never visited, didn't even read the The Economist article (didn't want to use up my quota of them) but: There is a ton of consumer spending in China. Apple stores everywhere in big cities, way more than London or New York for example. The biggest name luxury brands are all over the place. Cost of living in Shanghai is on par w San Francisco, Beijing is probably higher. Are any of these signs of middle-class prosperity? The general theory here is that you want a huge middle class spending a lot of money. In aggregate, in the US at least in times past, the broadly construed middle class had more wealth than the upper class, spend more, and also provide useful functions WRT to upper class earnings and spending. E.g. how cool are the Apple products that I see for sale in my local Wal-Mart? I.e. to what extent does middle class adaptation of upper class fashions drive changes in the latter?
- dreamfactory2 11y ago
  Yes it's something we think of as key. They also have very busy Uniqlos and Ikeas (if you wanted to get nitpicky those might be thought of as a bit upper middle class there, but then you could look to Taobao or all the local brands). And the fact is that those cities are hugely populous and all those shops are doing a roaring trade. I'd say the diagram in the article looks pretty on the money in terms of rapid growth of middle class. It's not as big as in, say, Germany of course but it's definitely there and looking very healthy. There doesn't appear to be _significantly_ greater poverty in the streets than in NY, LA, or SF. There is clearly disparity as you might expect in a turbulent emerging economy - the levels aren't too obviously dissimilar to much of the US or UK and visibly greater than western Europe and Nordics. Shanghai already makes many major Western cities look like a backwater.

hga 11y ago

Never visited, didn't even read the The Economist article (didn't want to use up my quota of them) but: There is a ton of consumer spending in China. Apple stores everywhere in big cities, way more than London or New York for example. The biggest name luxury brands are all over the place. Cost of living in Shanghai is on par w San Francisco, Beijing is probably higher. Are any of these signs of middle-class prosperity? The general theory here is that you want a huge middle class spending a lot of money. In aggregate, in the US at least in times past, the broadly construed middle class had more wealth than the upper class, spend more, and also provide useful functions WRT to upper class earnings and spending. E.g. how cool are the Apple products that I see for sale in my local Wal-Mart? I.e. to what extent does middle class adaptation of upper class fashions drive changes in the latter?

dreamfactory2 11y ago
Yes it's something we think of as key. They also have very busy Uniqlos and Ikeas (if you wanted to get nitpicky those might be thought of as a bit upper middle class there, but then you could look to Taobao or all the local brands). And the fact is that those cities are hugely populous and all those shops are doing a roaring trade. I'd say the diagram in the article looks pretty on the money in terms of rapid growth of middle class. It's not as big as in, say, Germany of course but it's definitely there and looking very healthy. There doesn't appear to be _significantly_ greater poverty in the streets than in NY, LA, or SF. There is clearly disparity as you might expect in a turbulent emerging economy - the levels aren't too obviously dissimilar to much of the US or UK and visibly greater than western Europe and Nordics. Shanghai already makes many major Western cities look like a backwater.