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Although I agree that putting non-technical managers in charge of a technical team can be a problem in some cases - I think the article focuses a little too muc

Although I agree that putting non-technical managers in charge of a technical team can be a problem in some cases - I think the article focuses a little too much on that aspect vs what I think may be more problematic -- that, in my experience, focus falls on process dogma (even agile's) when there isn't enough interaction with the user. From the start of the article: > They identified that the programmer is the central actor in the creation of software, and that the best software grows and evolves organically in contact with its users. I find myself echoing this a lot lately - that contact with users is the key to success in software development. Note that this has to be told to both management AND engineers. I've met lots of engineers in my time that don't want contact with users ...that is a problem.

mindcrime 11y ago
Note that this has to be told to both management AND engineers. I've met lots of engineers in my time that don't want contact with users ...that is a problem. That's a fair point, and it also comes out when you see hackers denigrate the role of "product manager". I mean, yeah, I get it... there are bad product managers who are completely non-technical, and clueless. You don't have to tell me. BUT... a real product manager is technical enough to have an intelligent conversation with the developers AND enjoys talking to customers and can "dumb things down" enough to talk to non-technical people and serves as that "bridge" between the users and the developers (go ahead, insert "Office Space" reference here). The problem is, people who actually have the required combinations of talents to be good product managers are very rare, meaning that most product managers suck. But when done right, it is a valuable role.
- andyidsinga 11y ago
  totally agree that a real project manager will be technical to some degree -- even if just an aficionado / technologist type. I do like to balance the scales a little and defend less technical leaders -- I've had a few really good non-technical leaders/bosses in the past 20 years. They were so good because they a) respected and trusted their technical teams immensely and b) made a really hard effort to learn from them such they could do the bridging you describe.
XorNot 11y ago
I would not want to push people who don't want to have contact with users to do it though - not without highly mediating that interaction. If your users are customers, then you're flirting with PR disaster if you're not careful about really evaluating if they're suitable to do it.
- andyidsinga 11y ago
  its a good point - Some mediation or multi-person visits are good. What I do: As tech lead I'll try to sign up to go out with the devs or go out myself and have the relevant devs on the phone. I really want my devs to know that not only are they developing the product, but that they're having an impact on the customer and that I value and trust their expertise in front of the customer. In my experience, devs might be awkward, but are still professional. ..and I swear to Richie that new neurons and paths are created the second devs hear a customer describe their situation :)

mindcrime 11y ago

Note that this has to be told to both management AND engineers. I've met lots of engineers in my time that don't want contact with users ...that is a problem. That's a fair point, and it also comes out when you see hackers denigrate the role of "product manager". I mean, yeah, I get it... there are bad product managers who are completely non-technical, and clueless. You don't have to tell me. BUT... a real product manager is technical enough to have an intelligent conversation with the developers AND enjoys talking to customers and can "dumb things down" enough to talk to non-technical people and serves as that "bridge" between the users and the developers (go ahead, insert "Office Space" reference here). The problem is, people who actually have the required combinations of talents to be good product managers are very rare, meaning that most product managers suck. But when done right, it is a valuable role.

andyidsinga 11y ago
totally agree that a real project manager will be technical to some degree -- even if just an aficionado / technologist type. I do like to balance the scales a little and defend less technical leaders -- I've had a few really good non-technical leaders/bosses in the past 20 years. They were so good because they a) respected and trusted their technical teams immensely and b) made a really hard effort to learn from them such they could do the bridging you describe.

XorNot 11y ago

I would not want to push people who don't want to have contact with users to do it though - not without highly mediating that interaction. If your users are customers, then you're flirting with PR disaster if you're not careful about really evaluating if they're suitable to do it.

andyidsinga 11y ago
its a good point - Some mediation or multi-person visits are good. What I do: As tech lead I'll try to sign up to go out with the devs or go out myself and have the relevant devs on the phone. I really want my devs to know that not only are they developing the product, but that they're having an impact on the customer and that I value and trust their expertise in front of the customer. In my experience, devs might be awkward, but are still professional. ..and I swear to Richie that new neurons and paths are created the second devs hear a customer describe their situation :)