11 ms·

I don't understand how California detected this. The one time I had to take my 2010 Jetta turbo diesel for a smog check, the inspection was ENTIRELY visual. The

I don't understand how California detected this. The one time I had to take my 2010 Jetta turbo diesel for a smog check, the inspection was ENTIRELY visual. The inspector did not insert a probe into the tailpipe. He did plug the test rig into the OBD-II port under the steering column and turn the key to the accessory position (presumably to electronically capture the VIN), but that's it. I even asked him at the end if it was an entirely visual inspection and he said, puzzled, yes but that's what the computer told him to do.

jcreedon 11y ago
I'm not sure about CA specifically, but some states only do full inspections on newer vehicles every other year. e.g. In a particular year the odd year models get the full inspection and the even year models just get a quick inspection and then vice versa in the next year.
- beachstartup 11y ago
  ca doesn't even do smog checks on newer vehicles (i believe 5 years, not sure though). i haven't done one in over a decade because i lease my cars as a business expense. also, ca has 'test-only' smog centers which do not perform repairs - if you fail there, you have to get your car tested and repaired somewhere else. needless to say ca highly incentivizes you to buy new clean cars. it quickly becomes very expensive to fix an old, polluting car under this regime. imagine how fast the bills can pile up if the first or second fix doesn't work. with new econo class cars available for ~$100/month on finance or lease, it doesn't really make sense to keep an old clunker around unless it's a collectible.
  - geggam 11y ago
    incentivizes you to buy and old clunker ( pre emissions ) and keep it running forever... or a truck...
    - Evolved 11y ago
      Interesting to note is that 1997-older diesel trucks/cars did not and still do not require any smog testing at all. "Currently, smog inspections are required for all vehicles except diesel powered vehicles 1997 year model and older or with a Gross Vehicle Weight (GVWR) of more than 14,000 lbs, electric, natural gas powered vehicles over 14,000 lbs, motorcycles, trailers, or gasoline powered vehicles 1975 and older."[0] [0] https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/vr/smogfaq https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/vr/smogfaq
  - thrownaway2424 11y ago
    The 6-year exemption for new vehicles does not apply to diesels. Diesel cars are required to get smogged every two years.
- Shivetya 11y ago
  Georgia doesn't even test diesel cars, others only if over three or four years old.
  - commandar 11y ago
    And only in the metro ATL area. The rest of the state doesn't do emissions testing.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
- lhc- 11y ago
  Wisconsin doesn't test any cars older than 1996, because they would need dynos for it. Much cheaper for them to just only test ODBII cars.
jandrese 11y ago
As I understand it you don't get the full tailpipe test unless your vehicle is too old to support the ODBII parameters they look for.
striking 11y ago
OBD-II tracks emissions data as well. http://ctemissions.com/test-procedures/what-is-obd http://ctemissions.com/test-procedures/what-is-obd
officialjunk 11y ago
i had to do a smog test for my 1 year anniversary of owning a new car. it is a 2015 model from a different manufacturer, acura, in my case, and it was visual inspection only. i asked the guy, because i'm used to having actual measurements performed each time. if a car is new enough then they only do a visual inspection. i don't know the details of how "new enough" is determined, though. i've seen this also when having fire extinguishers inspected; ones that are only a year or so old are also only visually inspected only.
- cpwright 11y ago
  In NY the first year is safety only; but year 2 and on are emissions + safety (depending on the county you register your car in, some never need emissions). The safety inspection only costs $10; IIRC the emissions + safety is $37.
tracker1 11y ago
Newer cars tend to have more relaxed testing requirements... in many places cars don't even require smog checks for the first five years.
efm 11y ago
Colorado does drive-by testing, on freeway on ramps, and other locations with high traffic. If your car fails, or hasn't been monitored by that system recently, you get a notice for the more complete inspection. The drive-by inspection doesn't require the co-operation of the driver or car, so is harder to game by detecting you are being tested.
- pico303 11y ago
  As a TDI owner and Colorado resident, I can tell you that the drive-by testing does not apply to diesel vehicles, nor do you take diesels to the emissions testing centers. You have to take your diesel to a state-licensed diesel mechanic for testing.
blacksmith_tb 11y ago
Here in Oregon my '03 TDI gets a quick ODB-II and a visual inspection (i.e. is the Check Engine light off, is the exhaust not full of smoke, etc.). Of course, I'd expect CA to be the most stringent state.
ryandrake 11y ago
California's CARB is the gestapo of car emissions. If anyone has the motivation, expertise, and evil disposition to detect this, it's the state of California. I've never lived in a state like this. Bi-yearly tailpipe sniffs and visual inspections. Even if your car's emissions are cleaner than their ridiculous requirements, they'll still fail your car if it has parts on it that are not stock. I ended up having to sell my car to someone out of state because I'm not going to swap in and out my carefully customized (and clean) intake and exhaust system every two years just so they can shine a flashlight in and see stock parts. I'm not shocked that California is a part of this.
- kuschku 11y ago
  More interestingly: Did the German TÜV not detect this? They have even stricter rules.
  - zardo 11y ago
    And completely different emission and OBD requirements. I don't know how much hardware they share, but they definitely use different software.
    - kuschku 11y ago
      Yes, but the TÜV should have noticed such faking, too.
  - xxpor 11y ago
    Europe doesn't have stupid emissions rules biased against diesels.
    - dubyah 11y ago
      On the contrary, California emission standards held diesel passenger vehicles to the same standards as gasoline/petrol passenger vehicles. Whereas in Europe, diesel emission standards were much more lax compared to their petrol counterparts. I suppose one could say that being more concerned with the more directly harmful and smog forming emissions(NOx and PM) over CO2 would constitute 'bias' against diesels. But, conversely, there's a rather compelling argument that the more lax European diesel regulations spurred diesel adoption and protect their domestic manufacturers. https://www3.nd.edu/~jthurk/Papers/MMT.pdf https://www3.nd.edu/~jthurk/Papers/MMT.pdf
Evolved 11y ago
California has a new emissions check system for vehicles 2000 and newer. No tail pipe probe or dyno regardless of the vehicle. Just visual inspection and plug in the OBDII reader. The OBDII reader checks the sensors for proper functioning and checks the ECU to make sure it hasn't been tampered with. Smog tech only really has to do the visual chek. Diesel trucks also get a snap test (step on the accelerator quickly and diesel smoke must dissipate within several seconds). Vehicles 1999 and older still get the tail pipe probe and dyno portion as well as the OBDII (if they have OBDII). [0] http://www.bar.ca.gov/Consumer/New_Smog_Check_Test.html http://www.bar.ca.gov/Consumer/New_Smog_Check_Test.html [1] http://www.smogtips.com/new-smog-law-ab-2289.cfm http://www.smogtips.com/new-smog-law-ab-2289.cfm
- marincounty 11y ago
  Yea, they do get the tailpipe emmissions test. Most shops use just one reference book for the visual inspections. The shop owner usually, almost always, buys the $100.00 Motor Emissions manual. The cheap shop owner should buy OnDemand5(Mitchell Manual Smog Emission) subscription/publication. They don't because they are cheap, and CARB only requires one reference manual for customers, and technicians. The problem is Motor Publications is filled with errors that send thousands of customers home with failed Smog Checks. I have found so many errors in Motor publications, it's comical. I have numerous emails, where I am literally arguing with, I believe, a secretary, over errors in their manuals. I have one email when the person I'm communicating with doesn't know the difference between Naturally Aspirated(Carburated) v.s. Fuel Injection. It's beyond frustrating, and I hope they get sued! If you live in California, and your car doesn't pass the visual smog check, it's probally not you--it's errors in Motor Publications? I have found errors on older Toyotas, and Volvos. Just the two autos I happen to own? What are the odds of that? They failed my vechicles, until I went to a shop that had Mitchell manuals, and I presented the Techs with a Printout of the Correct Emmission information. (Motor Emission manuals--If you are listening; please clean up your books? It's beyond frustrating to fail a smog test because of your sloppy research! I will show the world my frustrating emails--if necessary?) (CARB--if you are listening, require every shop to have access to two (2) separate Emmission manuals from different entities?) And no--1988 Toyota trucks, 2wd, naturally aspirated(Carburator) do Not require a MIL light. I literally tore apart the dash looking for the missing light. There was no light. There was no plug for a light. I literally thought I was going crazy. I was so frustrated, I forget to set the emergency brake and the truck rolled out of the garage. I'm lucky I wasen't on a hill and no one got hurt. I did need to buy a $200 bumper though. I'm still thinking about taking the shop to small claims court, but don't think it's worth the effort? So, if you live in California, and fail Smog--ask questions. Don't just bring it to another Smog testing station praying it will magically Pass.
jwcooper 11y ago
California didn't originally detect this. According to the letter from the EPA [1], it was a team at West Virginia University doing a study that discovered that TDI's in normal usage were found to have significantly higher emissions. California's CARB then dug into it to confirm their results and work with the EPA to figure out what was happening. [1] http://www3.epa.gov/otaq/cert/documents/vw-nov-caa-09-18-15.pdf http://www3.epa.gov/otaq/cert/documents/vw-nov-caa-09-18-15....

jcreedon 11y ago

I'm not sure about CA specifically, but some states only do full inspections on newer vehicles every other year. e.g. In a particular year the odd year models get the full inspection and the even year models just get a quick inspection and then vice versa in the next year.

beachstartup 11y ago
ca doesn't even do smog checks on newer vehicles (i believe 5 years, not sure though). i haven't done one in over a decade because i lease my cars as a business expense. also, ca has 'test-only' smog centers which do not perform repairs - if you fail there, you have to get your car tested and repaired somewhere else. needless to say ca highly incentivizes you to buy new clean cars. it quickly becomes very expensive to fix an old, polluting car under this regime. imagine how fast the bills can pile up if the first or second fix doesn't work. with new econo class cars available for ~$100/month on finance or lease, it doesn't really make sense to keep an old clunker around unless it's a collectible.
- geggam 11y ago
  incentivizes you to buy and old clunker ( pre emissions ) and keep it running forever... or a truck...
  - Evolved 11y ago
    Interesting to note is that 1997-older diesel trucks/cars did not and still do not require any smog testing at all. "Currently, smog inspections are required for all vehicles except diesel powered vehicles 1997 year model and older or with a Gross Vehicle Weight (GVWR) of more than 14,000 lbs, electric, natural gas powered vehicles over 14,000 lbs, motorcycles, trailers, or gasoline powered vehicles 1975 and older."[0] [0] https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/vr/smogfaq https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/vr/smogfaq
- thrownaway2424 11y ago
  The 6-year exemption for new vehicles does not apply to diesels. Diesel cars are required to get smogged every two years.
Shivetya 11y ago
Georgia doesn't even test diesel cars, others only if over three or four years old.
- commandar 11y ago
  And only in the metro ATL area. The rest of the state doesn't do emissions testing.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
lhc- 11y ago
Wisconsin doesn't test any cars older than 1996, because they would need dynos for it. Much cheaper for them to just only test ODBII cars.

jandrese 11y ago

As I understand it you don't get the full tailpipe test unless your vehicle is too old to support the ODBII parameters they look for.

striking 11y ago

OBD-II tracks emissions data as well. http://ctemissions.com/test-procedures/what-is-obd http://ctemissions.com/test-procedures/what-is-obd

officialjunk 11y ago

i had to do a smog test for my 1 year anniversary of owning a new car. it is a 2015 model from a different manufacturer, acura, in my case, and it was visual inspection only. i asked the guy, because i'm used to having actual measurements performed each time. if a car is new enough then they only do a visual inspection. i don't know the details of how "new enough" is determined, though. i've seen this also when having fire extinguishers inspected; ones that are only a year or so old are also only visually inspected only.

cpwright 11y ago
In NY the first year is safety only; but year 2 and on are emissions + safety (depending on the county you register your car in, some never need emissions). The safety inspection only costs $10; IIRC the emissions + safety is $37.

tracker1 11y ago

Newer cars tend to have more relaxed testing requirements... in many places cars don't even require smog checks for the first five years.

efm 11y ago

Colorado does drive-by testing, on freeway on ramps, and other locations with high traffic. If your car fails, or hasn't been monitored by that system recently, you get a notice for the more complete inspection. The drive-by inspection doesn't require the co-operation of the driver or car, so is harder to game by detecting you are being tested.

pico303 11y ago
As a TDI owner and Colorado resident, I can tell you that the drive-by testing does not apply to diesel vehicles, nor do you take diesels to the emissions testing centers. You have to take your diesel to a state-licensed diesel mechanic for testing.

blacksmith_tb 11y ago

Here in Oregon my '03 TDI gets a quick ODB-II and a visual inspection (i.e. is the Check Engine light off, is the exhaust not full of smoke, etc.). Of course, I'd expect CA to be the most stringent state.

ryandrake 11y ago

California's CARB is the gestapo of car emissions. If anyone has the motivation, expertise, and evil disposition to detect this, it's the state of California. I've never lived in a state like this. Bi-yearly tailpipe sniffs and visual inspections. Even if your car's emissions are cleaner than their ridiculous requirements, they'll still fail your car if it has parts on it that are not stock. I ended up having to sell my car to someone out of state because I'm not going to swap in and out my carefully customized (and clean) intake and exhaust system every two years just so they can shine a flashlight in and see stock parts. I'm not shocked that California is a part of this.

kuschku 11y ago
More interestingly: Did the German TÜV not detect this? They have even stricter rules.
- zardo 11y ago
  And completely different emission and OBD requirements. I don't know how much hardware they share, but they definitely use different software.
  - kuschku 11y ago
    Yes, but the TÜV should have noticed such faking, too.
- xxpor 11y ago
  Europe doesn't have stupid emissions rules biased against diesels.
  - dubyah 11y ago
    On the contrary, California emission standards held diesel passenger vehicles to the same standards as gasoline/petrol passenger vehicles. Whereas in Europe, diesel emission standards were much more lax compared to their petrol counterparts. I suppose one could say that being more concerned with the more directly harmful and smog forming emissions(NOx and PM) over CO2 would constitute 'bias' against diesels. But, conversely, there's a rather compelling argument that the more lax European diesel regulations spurred diesel adoption and protect their domestic manufacturers. https://www3.nd.edu/~jthurk/Papers/MMT.pdf https://www3.nd.edu/~jthurk/Papers/MMT.pdf

Evolved 11y ago

California has a new emissions check system for vehicles 2000 and newer. No tail pipe probe or dyno regardless of the vehicle. Just visual inspection and plug in the OBDII reader. The OBDII reader checks the sensors for proper functioning and checks the ECU to make sure it hasn't been tampered with. Smog tech only really has to do the visual chek. Diesel trucks also get a snap test (step on the accelerator quickly and diesel smoke must dissipate within several seconds). Vehicles 1999 and older still get the tail pipe probe and dyno portion as well as the OBDII (if they have OBDII). [0] http://www.bar.ca.gov/Consumer/New_Smog_Check_Test.html http://www.bar.ca.gov/Consumer/New_Smog_Check_Test.html [1] http://www.smogtips.com/new-smog-law-ab-2289.cfm http://www.smogtips.com/new-smog-law-ab-2289.cfm

marincounty 11y ago
Yea, they do get the tailpipe emmissions test. Most shops use just one reference book for the visual inspections. The shop owner usually, almost always, buys the $100.00 Motor Emissions manual. The cheap shop owner should buy OnDemand5(Mitchell Manual Smog Emission) subscription/publication. They don't because they are cheap, and CARB only requires one reference manual for customers, and technicians. The problem is Motor Publications is filled with errors that send thousands of customers home with failed Smog Checks. I have found so many errors in Motor publications, it's comical. I have numerous emails, where I am literally arguing with, I believe, a secretary, over errors in their manuals. I have one email when the person I'm communicating with doesn't know the difference between Naturally Aspirated(Carburated) v.s. Fuel Injection. It's beyond frustrating, and I hope they get sued! If you live in California, and your car doesn't pass the visual smog check, it's probally not you--it's errors in Motor Publications? I have found errors on older Toyotas, and Volvos. Just the two autos I happen to own? What are the odds of that? They failed my vechicles, until I went to a shop that had Mitchell manuals, and I presented the Techs with a Printout of the Correct Emmission information. (Motor Emission manuals--If you are listening; please clean up your books? It's beyond frustrating to fail a smog test because of your sloppy research! I will show the world my frustrating emails--if necessary?) (CARB--if you are listening, require every shop to have access to two (2) separate Emmission manuals from different entities?) And no--1988 Toyota trucks, 2wd, naturally aspirated(Carburator) do Not require a MIL light. I literally tore apart the dash looking for the missing light. There was no light. There was no plug for a light. I literally thought I was going crazy. I was so frustrated, I forget to set the emergency brake and the truck rolled out of the garage. I'm lucky I wasen't on a hill and no one got hurt. I did need to buy a $200 bumper though. I'm still thinking about taking the shop to small claims court, but don't think it's worth the effort? So, if you live in California, and fail Smog--ask questions. Don't just bring it to another Smog testing station praying it will magically Pass.

jwcooper 11y ago

California didn't originally detect this. According to the letter from the EPA [1], it was a team at West Virginia University doing a study that discovered that TDI's in normal usage were found to have significantly higher emissions. California's CARB then dug into it to confirm their results and work with the EPA to figure out what was happening. [1] http://www3.epa.gov/otaq/cert/documents/vw-nov-caa-09-18-15.pdf http://www3.epa.gov/otaq/cert/documents/vw-nov-caa-09-18-15....