8 ms·

It's not a problem for Billy, software gets built by itself if you have the right ideas. Just throw some dollars at an over-seas team. Execution is never a prob

by fla 11y ago

It's not a problem for Billy, software gets built by itself if you have the right ideas. Just throw some dollars at an over-seas team. Execution is never a problem. /s

annnnd 11y ago
Execution is never a problem. GOOD execution is THE problem.
- irl_zebra 11y ago
  This is a nice platitude, but doesn't hold up to scrutiny. For example: I'd suspect most ideas aren't that good, so it logically follows that execution would not be THE problem in most cases. More like: GOOD execution is one of the major problems.
  - pc86 11y ago
    But then how else can we continue the narrative that it's the Engineers (because we're not programmers but Engineers with a capital E) who are the end-all-be-all of any tech startup, and it solely on our shoulders that the company lives or dies?
    - silverbax88 11y ago
      As a programmer, I can promise you that engineers are not the be-all-end-all. It's sales. This is why engineers should not be afraid to sell, or at least, not be afraid to be out in front. The power in any organization comes from who sells the product.
      - nostrademons 11y ago
        Sales is not the be-all-end-all. It's engineering, and sales, and product/UX, and finance, and sometimes even customer service/marketing/PR/legal too. Salespeople need a product to sell, which has to be built, which requires money. Good businesses understand that all their functional areas are important, and don't try to preference one over another. You may need to focus on one at first to make progress with it, though I'd argue that when you first get started, that one area should be none of the above (it should be customer development in the Lean Startup sense: talking to people to get a sense of what they need and how they do things).
        jmngomes 11y ago
        Expensive and underperforming products are sold for millions every day in the enterprise software industry. That's not due to their engineering or UX, and certainly not to their customer support, it's mostly professional sales in action...
        nostrademons 11y ago
        I suspect that engineers who work in enterprise software would strongly disagree with you. I've done consumer stuff for the last 8 years, but I started in enterprise software, with 2 different jobs and a few internships over the first couple years of my career. The big challenge in enterprise software engineering is that your "customer" is the person who forks over money, not the person who uses the software. Pretty much all engineering effort is devoted to pleasing them. Engineering requirements for enterprise software are often insanely complex and sometimes even conflicting, and most of the engineering effort is devoted to satisfying them. If you look at product/UX debacles like Taleo or Lotus Notes from the perspective of a department head buying them (rather than from the recruiter, job applicant, or ordinary worker who will be using them), a lot of enterprise software makes sense. There's a lot of effort devoted to reporting requirements, to making sure the buyer has visibility on what all of his department is doing and conversely can make that "productivity" visible to his boss, to covering one's ass with regulatory requirements, and not much effort devoted to making things pretty or productive for the end-users. That's because the end-users are not the buyer of the software. Indeed, a lot of the investment thesis in consumer/smallbiz Internet is this idea that software should replace middle managers entirely, and so the end-users should be the actual buyer of the software who need it to make money, basically replacing management with markets.
        silverbax88 11y ago
        I wish it wasn't true, but strong sales staff can sell crapware all day long. Again, I'm a programmer. I had to learn this the hard way so I could insert myself higher into the process.
lighthawk 11y ago
> software gets built by itself if you have the right ideas And for those that read everything in the literal sense: this is a joke because of the /s. I've seen some really scary situations that started with throwing things over the wall- like having investors and board ready for the finished product in a few months, while it's just some wannabe CTO and maybe a family member helping holding the pile of shit code with some seriously rich and powerful people expecting that they will be in production soon, for large companies they've already talked with and planned to sell it to. Steaming piles of shit become rolling tumbleweeds of shit doom become ticking plutonium-enriched time-bombs of every-kind-of-animal feces...
- busterarm 11y ago
  This sounds exactly like a contract that I had once... shudders
rasz_pl 11y ago
You might think you are joking, but this blog clearly proved it to be true. All you need is a startup weekend and 8 "fucking nerds" to scam into coding your idea for free.
- nostrademons 11y ago
  I would bet that if Billy actually took this code to the "customers" he has lined up, they wouldn't use it. They'd have a bunch of other functionality they'd need implemented first before they even considered it. Then he'd take it to an outsourcing firm, who would collect a fee, throw out the original code (because they can't understand it), and then deliver another pile of code that doesn't work. Nerds can scam back, particularly when they live on other continents. Maybe he'll try another outsourcing firm, or maybe he'll try a naive college student, but I think the chance of him actually delivering a product that people will pay for and that stays at the forefront of the market is about zero. This method of founding a tech startup doesn't really work. Either learn to code yourself, or build a trusted long-term relationship with someone who can.
  - SwellJoe 11y ago
    I've met guys like Billy. His goal is not to get customers with this code. His goal is to get investors. And, I wouldn't be surprised if he succeeds. He helped the team win Startup Weekend with a seemingly effective presentation, after all. Further, I wouldn't be surprised if his plan now (that it's become clear his developer team wants nothing to do with him) is to raise money with the prototype built at Startup Weekend, and then trash it and start over, so he believes he is free of the obligations he agreed to in order to get the code (that 0.4% stake everyone agreed to). Investors always ask who else you have equity and economic obligations to...and I'll wager he neglects to mention the situation with 8 devs owning a total of 3.2% of his company. Regardless, dude's a douche hat, and I would hope nobody would fund him. Nobody smart would, since he's not gonna be able to deliver a product worth selling.
- fla 11y ago
  Yes, unfortunately too many people see it this way. I think it comes from the fact non-technical people don't necessarely understand what building software is. All they see is some nerds doing arcane magic with keyboards. The question is, can we do anything to make things better?

by fla 11y ago

It's not a problem for Billy, software gets built by itself if you have the right ideas. Just throw some dollars at an over-seas team. Execution is never a problem. /s

annnnd 11y ago

Execution is never a problem. GOOD execution is THE problem.

irl_zebra 11y ago
This is a nice platitude, but doesn't hold up to scrutiny. For example: I'd suspect most ideas aren't that good, so it logically follows that execution would not be THE problem in most cases. More like: GOOD execution is one of the major problems.
- pc86 11y ago
  But then how else can we continue the narrative that it's the Engineers (because we're not programmers but Engineers with a capital E) who are the end-all-be-all of any tech startup, and it solely on our shoulders that the company lives or dies?
  - silverbax88 11y ago
    As a programmer, I can promise you that engineers are not the be-all-end-all. It's sales. This is why engineers should not be afraid to sell, or at least, not be afraid to be out in front. The power in any organization comes from who sells the product.
    - nostrademons 11y ago
      Sales is not the be-all-end-all. It's engineering, and sales, and product/UX, and finance, and sometimes even customer service/marketing/PR/legal too. Salespeople need a product to sell, which has to be built, which requires money. Good businesses understand that all their functional areas are important, and don't try to preference one over another. You may need to focus on one at first to make progress with it, though I'd argue that when you first get started, that one area should be none of the above (it should be customer development in the Lean Startup sense: talking to people to get a sense of what they need and how they do things).
      - jmngomes 11y ago
        Expensive and underperforming products are sold for millions every day in the enterprise software industry. That's not due to their engineering or UX, and certainly not to their customer support, it's mostly professional sales in action...
        nostrademons 11y ago
        I suspect that engineers who work in enterprise software would strongly disagree with you. I've done consumer stuff for the last 8 years, but I started in enterprise software, with 2 different jobs and a few internships over the first couple years of my career. The big challenge in enterprise software engineering is that your "customer" is the person who forks over money, not the person who uses the software. Pretty much all engineering effort is devoted to pleasing them. Engineering requirements for enterprise software are often insanely complex and sometimes even conflicting, and most of the engineering effort is devoted to satisfying them. If you look at product/UX debacles like Taleo or Lotus Notes from the perspective of a department head buying them (rather than from the recruiter, job applicant, or ordinary worker who will be using them), a lot of enterprise software makes sense. There's a lot of effort devoted to reporting requirements, to making sure the buyer has visibility on what all of his department is doing and conversely can make that "productivity" visible to his boss, to covering one's ass with regulatory requirements, and not much effort devoted to making things pretty or productive for the end-users. That's because the end-users are not the buyer of the software. Indeed, a lot of the investment thesis in consumer/smallbiz Internet is this idea that software should replace middle managers entirely, and so the end-users should be the actual buyer of the software who need it to make money, basically replacing management with markets.
      - silverbax88 11y ago
        I wish it wasn't true, but strong sales staff can sell crapware all day long. Again, I'm a programmer. I had to learn this the hard way so I could insert myself higher into the process.

lighthawk 11y ago

> software gets built by itself if you have the right ideas And for those that read everything in the literal sense: this is a joke because of the /s. I've seen some really scary situations that started with throwing things over the wall- like having investors and board ready for the finished product in a few months, while it's just some wannabe CTO and maybe a family member helping holding the pile of shit code with some seriously rich and powerful people expecting that they will be in production soon, for large companies they've already talked with and planned to sell it to. Steaming piles of shit become rolling tumbleweeds of shit doom become ticking plutonium-enriched time-bombs of every-kind-of-animal feces...

busterarm 11y ago
This sounds exactly like a contract that I had once... shudders

rasz_pl 11y ago

You might think you are joking, but this blog clearly proved it to be true. All you need is a startup weekend and 8 "fucking nerds" to scam into coding your idea for free.

nostrademons 11y ago
I would bet that if Billy actually took this code to the "customers" he has lined up, they wouldn't use it. They'd have a bunch of other functionality they'd need implemented first before they even considered it. Then he'd take it to an outsourcing firm, who would collect a fee, throw out the original code (because they can't understand it), and then deliver another pile of code that doesn't work. Nerds can scam back, particularly when they live on other continents. Maybe he'll try another outsourcing firm, or maybe he'll try a naive college student, but I think the chance of him actually delivering a product that people will pay for and that stays at the forefront of the market is about zero. This method of founding a tech startup doesn't really work. Either learn to code yourself, or build a trusted long-term relationship with someone who can.
- SwellJoe 11y ago
  I've met guys like Billy. His goal is not to get customers with this code. His goal is to get investors. And, I wouldn't be surprised if he succeeds. He helped the team win Startup Weekend with a seemingly effective presentation, after all. Further, I wouldn't be surprised if his plan now (that it's become clear his developer team wants nothing to do with him) is to raise money with the prototype built at Startup Weekend, and then trash it and start over, so he believes he is free of the obligations he agreed to in order to get the code (that 0.4% stake everyone agreed to). Investors always ask who else you have equity and economic obligations to...and I'll wager he neglects to mention the situation with 8 devs owning a total of 3.2% of his company. Regardless, dude's a douche hat, and I would hope nobody would fund him. Nobody smart would, since he's not gonna be able to deliver a product worth selling.
fla 11y ago
Yes, unfortunately too many people see it this way. I think it comes from the fact non-technical people don't necessarely understand what building software is. All they see is some nerds doing arcane magic with keyboards. The question is, can we do anything to make things better?