7 ms·

The author of this piece doesn't really sound like a much better person than this Billy character. He sounds extremely entitled and arrogant. Just because "we b

The author of this piece doesn't really sound like a much better person than this Billy character. He sounds extremely entitled and arrogant. Just because "we build the Internet" doesn't mean we own the world. Billy's handling of the situation and his open homophobia are deplorable, but so it thinking you're superior to everyone can't hack. This kind of attitude is a big problem in our industry

fudgy73 11y ago
I think him writing this after what happened accentuates this, as he was writing "angry." That being said, his preconceived notions of Billy are almost as bad as Billy's of "nerds."
apta 11y ago
Homophobia?
jazzyk 11y ago
An even bigger problem in our industry is that, somehow, a lot of us think we are unworthy, lowly enablers of "the business"'s genius ideas. Enabling tirelessly, preferably over a weekend, for a 0.005% share of the company Grow a pair, people. BTW, I treat all human beings (coders or not) with equal respect, but I also learned to avoid the "Billy"s of this word like the plague.
- bakhy 11y ago
  you're both right, IMO. because there's a whole world between being a jerk and being a push-over. and btw, opposites typically have way more similarities than differences. (it actually says so in the definition of opposites in classical logic, but nobody seems to pay attention to that.) meaning, both attitudes sometimes come from the same place.
  - jazzyk 11y ago
    "Confident people do not belittle those who disagree. Arrogant people do." Edit: This is not a comment on your comment, which is valid. Just a quote I liked.
Elessar 11y ago
If it makes you feel better to knock the author down a peg, by all means. But don't equate the two. The author built software and expected professional discussion about a business opportunity. Billy attempted to take everything using his 'existing' incorporation that was against the rules. These actions are not equal, and the author highlights that there were plenty of warning indicators he should have, but did not pay attention to.
- chipgap98 11y ago
  I didn't write this to comment to "knock the author down a peg". From the facts of the story, my sympathies totally lie with the author. But the way he comes off is as entitled and arrogant. There is no reason that I can't feel that Billy was in the wrong, but I also dislike the author's attitude.
  - gress 11y ago
    The author is upset at a blatant attempt to take advantage of him. Isn't that appropriate?
  - lmartel 11y ago
    Entitled to what? Entitled to ownership of IP he produced? Entitled to the 0.4% equity stake that they agreed upon at the beginning? The backlash in this thread is mindboggling. The author's "attitude" seems pretty appropriate for someone who was very recently betrayed by a team member. I understand if you don't like the "nerds vs jocks" imagery but frankly that's not arrogance, it's colorful storytelling.
  - strickjb9 11y ago
    I agree with you, what did the author think was going to come out of a Startup/hacking weekend? You are basically giving away your talents at those events. One has to manage expectations better, and also avoid the Billys of the world.
    - mgkimsal 11y ago
3pt14159 11y ago
He is pushing back. He clearly thinks other people have value, otherwise he wouldn't have agreed to work with a business person at all.
dudurocha 11y ago
I agree, but for different reasons. I think the author (or his friend at least) entered in the event to test his Speculative Stock Warrant. (It is a ways to get a small kick-back if startup goes big 10 years later) So he already entered in the event to only get an shadow option of a potential good company. He complained that Billy did not valued enough their weekend hacking and put an outside parter in the company. But he already only had 0.4%. If I was Billy I wouldn't think of someone who had this kind of deal with me as a cofounder.
- BWStearns 11y ago
  The SSW only activates the 0.4% if the participant decides not to stay with any business that evolves out of the weekend, otherwise separately negotiated terms would drive the equity allotment. I actually rather like the idea since it seems to protect the interests of people participating in a startup weekend from a Billy (and even protects Billy).
navait 11y ago
I got the idea that what the author really thinks (whether he knows it or not) is "It's our turn to be the bullies now"
late2part 11y ago
I've known Bobby for 20 years now, and while this makes me biased, this also makes me informed. Bobby is not entitled or arrogant. He works hard and preserves friendships. He has a strong sense of fairness, and it's my perception it was extremely riled by the actions of Billy. Bobby's assertions about the software development being more important than the good-old-boy networks and the braggadocio are generally celebrated in this forum, I don't see why there's a minority backlash. I believe it's clear from what I read that this situation had a non-technical "co-founder" try to screw over technical co-founders, and Bobby is calling him out on it and using it as a teaching moment.
- gmarx 11y ago
  I don't understand this. I read the entire thing and even though it is from the authors point of view, to me he come across poorly relative to the business guy. The only thing I can see the business guy is accused of is that he didn't make it clear enough that he has been working on this idea for 18 months and has an LLC. The author acts as if it is obvious this guy is an asshole but aside from going to the gym and having blond hair and saying "gay shit" (without any clear reference to homosexuality) what did he do that made him an asshole? Even the joke he made that was supposed evidence of his being a bully was in response to the author's joke about remembering to throw the team under the bus. The author on the other hand comes across as a guy with a chip on his shoulder. Based on this article I would be reluctant to work with him.
  - jeremiep 11y ago
    I had the same impression. The constant "we built this internet" and "we run the show now" displays so much ignorance and insecurity about our field its not even funny anymore. These people usually can't explain the first thing about how the internet actually work, even if they can build websites every day. I couldn't help but be reminded of the Dunning-Kruger Effect while reading this article.
    - gmarx 11y ago
      I have no doubt the author is a good developer. He does seem to undervalue all the hustling Billy is doing. Sounds like he has customers lined up. I would kill for a startup founding partner like that

fudgy73 11y ago

I think him writing this after what happened accentuates this, as he was writing "angry." That being said, his preconceived notions of Billy are almost as bad as Billy's of "nerds."

apta 11y ago

Homophobia?

jazzyk 11y ago

An even bigger problem in our industry is that, somehow, a lot of us think we are unworthy, lowly enablers of "the business"'s genius ideas. Enabling tirelessly, preferably over a weekend, for a 0.005% share of the company Grow a pair, people. BTW, I treat all human beings (coders or not) with equal respect, but I also learned to avoid the "Billy"s of this word like the plague.

bakhy 11y ago
you're both right, IMO. because there's a whole world between being a jerk and being a push-over. and btw, opposites typically have way more similarities than differences. (it actually says so in the definition of opposites in classical logic, but nobody seems to pay attention to that.) meaning, both attitudes sometimes come from the same place.
- jazzyk 11y ago
  "Confident people do not belittle those who disagree. Arrogant people do." Edit: This is not a comment on your comment, which is valid. Just a quote I liked.

Elessar 11y ago

If it makes you feel better to knock the author down a peg, by all means. But don't equate the two. The author built software and expected professional discussion about a business opportunity. Billy attempted to take everything using his 'existing' incorporation that was against the rules. These actions are not equal, and the author highlights that there were plenty of warning indicators he should have, but did not pay attention to.

chipgap98 11y ago
I didn't write this to comment to "knock the author down a peg". From the facts of the story, my sympathies totally lie with the author. But the way he comes off is as entitled and arrogant. There is no reason that I can't feel that Billy was in the wrong, but I also dislike the author's attitude.
- gress 11y ago
  The author is upset at a blatant attempt to take advantage of him. Isn't that appropriate?
- lmartel 11y ago
  Entitled to what? Entitled to ownership of IP he produced? Entitled to the 0.4% equity stake that they agreed upon at the beginning? The backlash in this thread is mindboggling. The author's "attitude" seems pretty appropriate for someone who was very recently betrayed by a team member. I understand if you don't like the "nerds vs jocks" imagery but frankly that's not arrogance, it's colorful storytelling.
- strickjb9 11y ago
  I agree with you, what did the author think was going to come out of a Startup/hacking weekend? You are basically giving away your talents at those events. One has to manage expectations better, and also avoid the Billys of the world.
  - mgkimsal 11y ago

3pt14159 11y ago

He is pushing back. He clearly thinks other people have value, otherwise he wouldn't have agreed to work with a business person at all.

dudurocha 11y ago

I agree, but for different reasons. I think the author (or his friend at least) entered in the event to test his Speculative Stock Warrant. (It is a ways to get a small kick-back if startup goes big 10 years later) So he already entered in the event to only get an shadow option of a potential good company. He complained that Billy did not valued enough their weekend hacking and put an outside parter in the company. But he already only had 0.4%. If I was Billy I wouldn't think of someone who had this kind of deal with me as a cofounder.

BWStearns 11y ago
The SSW only activates the 0.4% if the participant decides not to stay with any business that evolves out of the weekend, otherwise separately negotiated terms would drive the equity allotment. I actually rather like the idea since it seems to protect the interests of people participating in a startup weekend from a Billy (and even protects Billy).

navait 11y ago

I got the idea that what the author really thinks (whether he knows it or not) is "It's our turn to be the bullies now"

late2part 11y ago

I've known Bobby for 20 years now, and while this makes me biased, this also makes me informed. Bobby is not entitled or arrogant. He works hard and preserves friendships. He has a strong sense of fairness, and it's my perception it was extremely riled by the actions of Billy. Bobby's assertions about the software development being more important than the good-old-boy networks and the braggadocio are generally celebrated in this forum, I don't see why there's a minority backlash. I believe it's clear from what I read that this situation had a non-technical "co-founder" try to screw over technical co-founders, and Bobby is calling him out on it and using it as a teaching moment.

gmarx 11y ago
I don't understand this. I read the entire thing and even though it is from the authors point of view, to me he come across poorly relative to the business guy. The only thing I can see the business guy is accused of is that he didn't make it clear enough that he has been working on this idea for 18 months and has an LLC. The author acts as if it is obvious this guy is an asshole but aside from going to the gym and having blond hair and saying "gay shit" (without any clear reference to homosexuality) what did he do that made him an asshole? Even the joke he made that was supposed evidence of his being a bully was in response to the author's joke about remembering to throw the team under the bus. The author on the other hand comes across as a guy with a chip on his shoulder. Based on this article I would be reluctant to work with him.
- jeremiep 11y ago
  I had the same impression. The constant "we built this internet" and "we run the show now" displays so much ignorance and insecurity about our field its not even funny anymore. These people usually can't explain the first thing about how the internet actually work, even if they can build websites every day. I couldn't help but be reminded of the Dunning-Kruger Effect while reading this article.
  - gmarx 11y ago
    I have no doubt the author is a good developer. He does seem to undervalue all the hustling Billy is doing. Sounds like he has customers lined up. I would kill for a startup founding partner like that