4 ms·

You mean offensive not oppressive and as with everything it depends on context and really Bobby doesn't come off as straight as an arrow to me, he's as shady as

by notNow 11y ago

You mean offensive not oppressive and as with everything it depends on context and really Bobby doesn't come off as straight as an arrow to me, he's as shady as he claims Billy to be and if he got his way and Billy paid him off, I bet my right arm we wouldn't have heard about those slurs at all but it's in his best interest to stir the pot and defame Billy.

commentzorro 11y ago
> ...he's as shady as he claims Billy to be... Would you cite the text where you decided this? I'm not seeing it but likely read with a different tone. > ...I bet that if he got his way and Billy paid him off... Again, I'm not seeing this. Do you mean paying him 1/9th of the money and parting ways?
- notNow 11y ago
  Would you cite the text where you decided this? I'm not seeing it but likely read with a different tone. Didn't you read the "we devs are taking over the world" part and the infamous Andreessen's quote? That's evil in my book. Do you mean paying him 1/9th of the money and parting ways? If Bobby was paid or compensated as he had expected, we wouldn't know about these incidents involving those slurs. That's my point.
  - dantillberg 11y ago
    The text you quote is not in the article. Perhaps you mean this?: > Actually, we are in charge now. You just haven’t realized it yet. Automate or be automated. If you don’t know how to map out complex systems. If you never got grounded as a kid for taking things apart. If you are too lazy or unwilling to learn our ways. If you don’t work for us yet, you soon will. Because software is eating the world. These are things that software engineers tell themselves after they have been bullied in the business world to remind themselves that they are valuable and that they should be respected, despite encountering people sometimes that place no value or respect in either them or the work that they perform. Perhaps you could try and share what about the text feels evil to you, though? Why does it feel threatening to you?
    - ambicapter 11y ago
      Not OP but if you can't tell how vindictive that sounds, I guess we just come from different worlds. I certainly wouldn't trust someone who said that in a position of power over others in the slightest.
    - ElComradio 11y ago
      If somebody is going to get upset at some offensive language he's almost certainly the sort of person who will continually get walked on, since acceptance is the primary component of the worldview.
  - commentzorro 11y ago
    I hear what you're saying but didn't interpret things the way you did. Here's my guess as to your thinking. Please correct so I can see where I'm misinterpreting. IMO, you think that everything that Billy did was clear and above board. That the engineers should have _understood_ that Billy was the one in charge by what he said and what he did. That he owned the idea and that they were there to implement his vision as they best interpreted it in order to get things off the ground. His "payment" for this would be: the win, the .4%, and the good times. The .4% especially made that explicit. Also, it was clear that there was not necessarily any connection between Billy and the rest of the team after the event unless Billy thought they jelled and decided to keep things rolling. Otherwise they would part ways with everyone having had fun and the coders having gotten a reasonable "taste" if things did take off. Because of Billy mentioning the LLC and his partner.
deleted 11y ago
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jMyles 11y ago
> offensive not oppressive What?! I mean 'oppressive language' as that phrase is used in various systems of communications modeling, such as NVC and Active Listening. Why are you saying that I mean something else? > he's as shady as he claims Billy to be This is, at best, a tu quoque fallacy. Why are you doing damage control? At the end of the day, this isn't even about Bobby and Billy, but about all the Bobbies and Billies you meet in the tech scene generally.
- drewm1980 11y ago
  @jMyles, sadly, "oppressive language" is probably as jargony as "NVC" and "Active listening" are for most people. If you aren't aware that a cultural clique has changed a few characters in a common phrase to coin a phrase that means something only slightly different, it just looks like a typo. I will have to google "tu quoque"...
  - jMyles 11y ago
    "NVC" and "Active Listening" are jargon, and not terribly impressive jargon - I'll warrant that. But "oppressive language?" That just seems like a good descriptor of a communications style that we all encounter from time to time. That's the reason these "systems" have picked it up.
late2part 11y ago
Quoting Andreessen is oppressive now?

by notNow 11y ago

commentzorro 11y ago

> ...he's as shady as he claims Billy to be... Would you cite the text where you decided this? I'm not seeing it but likely read with a different tone. > ...I bet that if he got his way and Billy paid him off... Again, I'm not seeing this. Do you mean paying him 1/9th of the money and parting ways?

notNow 11y ago
Would you cite the text where you decided this? I'm not seeing it but likely read with a different tone. Didn't you read the "we devs are taking over the world" part and the infamous Andreessen's quote? That's evil in my book. Do you mean paying him 1/9th of the money and parting ways? If Bobby was paid or compensated as he had expected, we wouldn't know about these incidents involving those slurs. That's my point.
- dantillberg 11y ago
  The text you quote is not in the article. Perhaps you mean this?: > Actually, we are in charge now. You just haven’t realized it yet. Automate or be automated. If you don’t know how to map out complex systems. If you never got grounded as a kid for taking things apart. If you are too lazy or unwilling to learn our ways. If you don’t work for us yet, you soon will. Because software is eating the world. These are things that software engineers tell themselves after they have been bullied in the business world to remind themselves that they are valuable and that they should be respected, despite encountering people sometimes that place no value or respect in either them or the work that they perform. Perhaps you could try and share what about the text feels evil to you, though? Why does it feel threatening to you?
  - ambicapter 11y ago
    Not OP but if you can't tell how vindictive that sounds, I guess we just come from different worlds. I certainly wouldn't trust someone who said that in a position of power over others in the slightest.
  - ElComradio 11y ago
    If somebody is going to get upset at some offensive language he's almost certainly the sort of person who will continually get walked on, since acceptance is the primary component of the worldview.
- commentzorro 11y ago
  I hear what you're saying but didn't interpret things the way you did. Here's my guess as to your thinking. Please correct so I can see where I'm misinterpreting. IMO, you think that everything that Billy did was clear and above board. That the engineers should have _understood_ that Billy was the one in charge by what he said and what he did. That he owned the idea and that they were there to implement his vision as they best interpreted it in order to get things off the ground. His "payment" for this would be: the win, the .4%, and the good times. The .4% especially made that explicit. Also, it was clear that there was not necessarily any connection between Billy and the rest of the team after the event unless Billy thought they jelled and decided to keep things rolling. Otherwise they would part ways with everyone having had fun and the coders having gotten a reasonable "taste" if things did take off. Because of Billy mentioning the LLC and his partner.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

jMyles 11y ago

> offensive not oppressive What?! I mean 'oppressive language' as that phrase is used in various systems of communications modeling, such as NVC and Active Listening. Why are you saying that I mean something else? > he's as shady as he claims Billy to be This is, at best, a tu quoque fallacy. Why are you doing damage control? At the end of the day, this isn't even about Bobby and Billy, but about all the Bobbies and Billies you meet in the tech scene generally.

drewm1980 11y ago
@jMyles, sadly, "oppressive language" is probably as jargony as "NVC" and "Active listening" are for most people. If you aren't aware that a cultural clique has changed a few characters in a common phrase to coin a phrase that means something only slightly different, it just looks like a typo. I will have to google "tu quoque"...
- jMyles 11y ago
  "NVC" and "Active Listening" are jargon, and not terribly impressive jargon - I'll warrant that. But "oppressive language?" That just seems like a good descriptor of a communications style that we all encounter from time to time. That's the reason these "systems" have picked it up.

late2part 11y ago

Quoting Andreessen is oppressive now?