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> global audience That's the reason they recommended to use a payment gateway that implements all those local payment solutions. For example, in Germany you lo

> global audience That's the reason they recommended to use a payment gateway that implements all those local payment solutions. For example, in Germany you loose a lot of customers if you don't offer direct debit (ELV) as many don't own a credit card (and don't want to). > you typically don't have the same chargeback rights when using a banking service like iDEAL This heavily depends on the service. For example, the upcoming German Paydirekt will offer better chargeback service than most German credit cards (where you typically don't enjoy the US-style "anything is reversible" type of protection).

bemmu 11y ago
Also I need recurring payments. Not sure if those would be possible with ELV / iDEAL.
- germanier 11y ago
  For ELV sure. That's the German implementation of SEPA direct debit (which should work almost everywhere in Europe). You can even charge different amount each time, provided you inform the customer before you attempt to charge. For example, I pay my electricity and phone bills by this system, just like my purchases on Amazon and almost everything else that is provided by German companies (just like most people). Don't know about iDEAL, but I think that wouldn't work. The thing: If you don't implement all of this yourself, you don't need to worry about the details. There are services that happily do this for you.
  - pc86 11y ago
    I have a SaaS app that has only US customers at the moment but I would love to be able to offer this type of support and begin acquiring European customers. Do you have any recommendations of services that handle this ELV/SEPA/iDEAL type of integration?
emodendroket 11y ago
> That's the reason they recommended to use a payment gateway that implements all those local payment solutions. For example, in Germany you loose a lot of customers if you don't offer direct debit (ELV) as many don't own a credit card (and don't want to). I can't imagine wanting to give out my bank details to allow direct debit of my account to every online retailer I do business with. Weird.
- germanier 11y ago
  Not too different from giving out your credit card number. I can reverse any direct debit online with two clicks and a second-factor authentication. Disputing a credit card transaction here on the other hand requires filling out a form, signing it on paper, sending it via post, and waiting for the response.
  - sbov 11y ago
    Very different in the US. US consumer protection laws treat credit and debit cards differently. They favor credit cards. The gap between the two is up to the goodwill of your bank. I prefer to rely on law than goodwill. I have never had a problem with getting a refund on a credit card charge I claimed was fraud. I have no idea why people choose to use a debit card over a credit card here.
    - jandrese 11y ago
      The thread might be titled "People tend to use the safest (to them) form of payment available". If your credit card laws protect the consumer a lot (like in the US) then you use credit cards. If you have some in-country debit system with better protection you use that instead. One reason it's so hard to unseat credit cards in the US is because most of the advantages of the alternatives are on the sellers side. The consumer doesn't seen any benefit from switching to Apple Pay or whatever. Most merchant agreements don't even let stores charge less for using non-credit card type payments (although some stores do anyway). As a US citizen I use my credit cards constantly. It's an instant 1% discount on everything I buy (thanks to the cash back), and its fast and easy. I pay it off every month to avoid paying interest. There's basically no downside to me. The story would be different if retailers were allowed to directly pass on the service fees however. I would definitely think twice if every time I used it I got surcharged $0.50.

bemmu 11y ago

Also I need recurring payments. Not sure if those would be possible with ELV / iDEAL.

germanier 11y ago
For ELV sure. That's the German implementation of SEPA direct debit (which should work almost everywhere in Europe). You can even charge different amount each time, provided you inform the customer before you attempt to charge. For example, I pay my electricity and phone bills by this system, just like my purchases on Amazon and almost everything else that is provided by German companies (just like most people). Don't know about iDEAL, but I think that wouldn't work. The thing: If you don't implement all of this yourself, you don't need to worry about the details. There are services that happily do this for you.
- pc86 11y ago
  I have a SaaS app that has only US customers at the moment but I would love to be able to offer this type of support and begin acquiring European customers. Do you have any recommendations of services that handle this ELV/SEPA/iDEAL type of integration?

emodendroket 11y ago

> That's the reason they recommended to use a payment gateway that implements all those local payment solutions. For example, in Germany you loose a lot of customers if you don't offer direct debit (ELV) as many don't own a credit card (and don't want to). I can't imagine wanting to give out my bank details to allow direct debit of my account to every online retailer I do business with. Weird.

germanier 11y ago
Not too different from giving out your credit card number. I can reverse any direct debit online with two clicks and a second-factor authentication. Disputing a credit card transaction here on the other hand requires filling out a form, signing it on paper, sending it via post, and waiting for the response.
- sbov 11y ago
  Very different in the US. US consumer protection laws treat credit and debit cards differently. They favor credit cards. The gap between the two is up to the goodwill of your bank. I prefer to rely on law than goodwill. I have never had a problem with getting a refund on a credit card charge I claimed was fraud. I have no idea why people choose to use a debit card over a credit card here.
  - jandrese 11y ago
    The thread might be titled "People tend to use the safest (to them) form of payment available". If your credit card laws protect the consumer a lot (like in the US) then you use credit cards. If you have some in-country debit system with better protection you use that instead. One reason it's so hard to unseat credit cards in the US is because most of the advantages of the alternatives are on the sellers side. The consumer doesn't seen any benefit from switching to Apple Pay or whatever. Most merchant agreements don't even let stores charge less for using non-credit card type payments (although some stores do anyway). As a US citizen I use my credit cards constantly. It's an instant 1% discount on everything I buy (thanks to the cash back), and its fast and easy. I pay it off every month to avoid paying interest. There's basically no downside to me. The story would be different if retailers were allowed to directly pass on the service fees however. I would definitely think twice if every time I used it I got surcharged $0.50.