4 ms·
Downgradeable encryption is arguably better than none at all. It raises an attacker's prerequisites from just passive snooping to active tampering. Yeah, it's
by scintill76 11y ago
Downgradeable encryption is arguably better than none at all. It raises an attacker's prerequisites from just passive snooping to active tampering.
Yeah, it's an illusion of security to an extent, it's imperfect, but between waiting a decade or two for SMTPS delivery to be widespread, and using STARTTLS today, I'll take STARTTLS.
T̶h̶e̶y̶ ̶w̶o̶u̶l̶d̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶t̶a̶k̶e̶ ̶a̶ ̶d̶e̶l̶i̶v̶e̶r̶y̶ ̶o̶n̶ ̶p̶o̶r̶t̶ ̶2̶5̶ ̶w̶i̶t̶h̶o̶u̶t̶ ̶S̶T̶A̶R̶T̶T̶L̶S̶.̶.̶.̶ ̶i̶n̶t̶e̶r̶e̶s̶t̶i̶n̶g̶.̶ ̶ ̶D̶o̶e̶s̶ ̶a̶n̶y̶o̶n̶e̶ ̶k̶n̶o̶w̶ ̶i̶f̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶u̶n̶i̶v̶e̶r̶s̶a̶l̶?̶ (Edit: may have spoken too soon. smtp.gmail.com responds "530 5.7.0 Must issue a STARTTLS command first." to MAIL FROM, which is I think to force a Gmail user to auth over STARTTLS before sending mail for relaying. The gmail.com MX servers don't appear to force STARTTLS.) Gmail could basically strongarm everyone into using STARTTLS and valid certs, for both sending and receiving, at which point we can release a new RFC requiring immediate STARTTLS or the connection will be closed, and everyone will already be capable of obeying it to be able to interop with Gmail.
- cm2187 11y agoGiven gmail's volume that would pretty much make it a requirement for all other mail services. A mandatory STARSTTLS would make me happy!
- drdaeman 11y agoHow mandatory STARTTLS (on Google servers' side) would help you against MitM downgrade attack? The only way to avoid it is for your MUA to require STARTTLS.
- cm2187 11y agoOr for the server to terminate the connection if STARTTLS is not requested
- drdaeman 11y agoYes, but how that'd prevent the attack? The active attacker may tell your MUA to use the plain text, but this doesn't mean the whole connection must be unencrypted end-to-end. I don't see why the connection past the attacker can't still use STARTTLS (or even "classic" port-based TLS). Google servers won't even know the connection is not secured end-to-end. That said, requiring TLS/STARTTLS on the server side is a good idea. But it doesn't protect from downgrade attacks.