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So far we have gotten Bitcoin classified: * CFTC: Commodity * IRS: Property * Judge: Currency * SEC: Security * TSA: Cash One step closer to world domination.

by brayton 11y ago

bduerst 11y ago
The NY Judge defined it as a currency so they could adequately prosecute someone using bitcoin in a ponzi scheme. If the law redefined ponzi scheme to use something other than a currency, it might be defined differently.
jerf 11y ago
In other words, every government entity happens to believe it is entitled to regulate it. Not sure this is cause for celebration.
- irixusr 11y ago
  Careful, increasingly the governments expect you to agree they have a right to whatever they claim.
- jMyles 11y ago
  ...or that's it's remarkable. It's the default belief for a government entity.
  - cowsandmilk 11y ago
    Yep, regulators generally want to broaden their reach to cover anything and everything that could be interpreted as being under their regulation. Narrow readings are not for the regulator. You have to go to court (or have the legitimate ability to threaten going to court) to hope for a narrower reading.
    - Retric 11y ago
      [citation needed] it's often more about what industry and politics vs regulators. Ex: EPA often has a rather hands off policy and is frequently sued for failing to regulate industry. SEC is often described as asleep at the wheel. FDA carved out lots of things as outside their preview like 'natural' remedies even if it was created in Large part to deal with exactly that type of snake oil.
      - jMyles 11y ago
        Perhaps though, you've confused breadth for depth.
- bmmayer1 11y ago
  This is the most important point. We apparently live in a country where regulators get to decide what falls under the umbrella of their regulation.
  - TheCoelacanth 11y ago
    Courts and lawmakers are the ones who get to decide, but when the laws are vague the regulatory agencies have to choose some interpretation of the law to operate under until the lawmakers make a clearer law or until courts issue a ruling that clarifies the law.
- gnaritas 11y ago
  Every government is entilted to regulate it, it's an asset like any other, being new doesn't make it outside of existing law.
  - irixusr 11y ago
    Why?
    - gnaritas 11y ago
      Quite simply because law doesn't work that way. Laws apply to future new things as well as existing things; being new doesn't make something exist outside of current law and law doesn't regulate things with technology, but with law. The ability to jail people is how and why law works and you can't tech your way around that. They don't need to technically be able to stop something because they have the means and ability to enforce these things socially.
    - kodablah 11y ago
      Because governments rely on the ability to tax financial exchanges to finance themselves. Not saying it's right, but it's the crux of their power and income.
      - irixusr 11y ago
        Well the "why are they are entitled to it" is because they have a monopoly on power. Why they regulate is to finance themselves.
        gnaritas 11y ago
        > is because they have a monopoly on power. Granted to them by us, voluntarily.
        irixusr 11y ago
        The most decorated soldier in american history is Smedley Butler. Two medals of honor. He wrote a book, "war is a racket" where he comes to the conclusion that his entire career was to further the interests of big money and elites. We peons don't get to really choose who governs us, never mind to have government. But if belief in "the consent of the governed" comforts you, go ahead and down vote me.
- kordless 11y ago
  Not sure this is cause for regulation.
- reviseddamage 11y ago
  it's probably more indicative that all of them are wrong since they can't be collectively right.
dogma1138 11y ago
This isn't new IRS also sees stocks and bonds as (investment) property http://www.irs.gov/publications/p550/ch04.html http://www.irs.gov/publications/p550/ch04.html. Each agency can regulate the same thing under different scenarios there isn't really a conflict there.

So far we have gotten Bitcoin classified: * CFTC: Commodity * IRS: Property * Judge: Currency * SEC: Security * TSA: Cash One step closer to world domination.

by brayton 11y ago

So far we have gotten Bitcoin classified: * CFTC: Commodity * IRS: Property * Judge: Currency * SEC: Security * TSA: Cash One step closer to world domination.

bduerst 11y ago

The NY Judge defined it as a currency so they could adequately prosecute someone using bitcoin in a ponzi scheme. If the law redefined ponzi scheme to use something other than a currency, it might be defined differently.

jerf 11y ago

In other words, every government entity happens to believe it is entitled to regulate it. Not sure this is cause for celebration.

irixusr 11y ago
Careful, increasingly the governments expect you to agree they have a right to whatever they claim.
jMyles 11y ago
...or that's it's remarkable. It's the default belief for a government entity.
- cowsandmilk 11y ago
  Yep, regulators generally want to broaden their reach to cover anything and everything that could be interpreted as being under their regulation. Narrow readings are not for the regulator. You have to go to court (or have the legitimate ability to threaten going to court) to hope for a narrower reading.
  - Retric 11y ago
    [citation needed] it's often more about what industry and politics vs regulators. Ex: EPA often has a rather hands off policy and is frequently sued for failing to regulate industry. SEC is often described as asleep at the wheel. FDA carved out lots of things as outside their preview like 'natural' remedies even if it was created in Large part to deal with exactly that type of snake oil.
    - jMyles 11y ago
      Perhaps though, you've confused breadth for depth.
bmmayer1 11y ago
This is the most important point. We apparently live in a country where regulators get to decide what falls under the umbrella of their regulation.
- TheCoelacanth 11y ago
  Courts and lawmakers are the ones who get to decide, but when the laws are vague the regulatory agencies have to choose some interpretation of the law to operate under until the lawmakers make a clearer law or until courts issue a ruling that clarifies the law.
gnaritas 11y ago
Every government is entilted to regulate it, it's an asset like any other, being new doesn't make it outside of existing law.
- irixusr 11y ago
  Why?
  - gnaritas 11y ago
    Quite simply because law doesn't work that way. Laws apply to future new things as well as existing things; being new doesn't make something exist outside of current law and law doesn't regulate things with technology, but with law. The ability to jail people is how and why law works and you can't tech your way around that. They don't need to technically be able to stop something because they have the means and ability to enforce these things socially.
  - kodablah 11y ago
    Because governments rely on the ability to tax financial exchanges to finance themselves. Not saying it's right, but it's the crux of their power and income.
    - irixusr 11y ago
      Well the "why are they are entitled to it" is because they have a monopoly on power. Why they regulate is to finance themselves.
      - gnaritas 11y ago
        > is because they have a monopoly on power. Granted to them by us, voluntarily.
        irixusr 11y ago
        The most decorated soldier in american history is Smedley Butler. Two medals of honor. He wrote a book, "war is a racket" where he comes to the conclusion that his entire career was to further the interests of big money and elites. We peons don't get to really choose who governs us, never mind to have government. But if belief in "the consent of the governed" comforts you, go ahead and down vote me.
kordless 11y ago
Not sure this is cause for regulation.
reviseddamage 11y ago
it's probably more indicative that all of them are wrong since they can't be collectively right.

dogma1138 11y ago

This isn't new IRS also sees stocks and bonds as (investment) property http://www.irs.gov/publications/p550/ch04.html http://www.irs.gov/publications/p550/ch04.html. Each agency can regulate the same thing under different scenarios there isn't really a conflict there.