4 ms·

Why call a salary inflated, if lawyers or doctors still make more? I have yet to meet one lawyer who feels his salary is undeserved or inflated. Unprofitable b

by quonn 11y ago

Why call a salary inflated, if lawyers or doctors still make more? I have yet to meet one lawyer who feels his salary is undeserved or inflated. Unprofitable businesses (startups) don't even pay their employees that much. The established/big players pay higher salaries and do not depend on much credit at all.

dovereconomics 11y ago
Even if unrealizable business don't pay very much(close to doctors/lawyers), it still is a distortion in the market that wouldn't be possible in a free market. Btw, big players are also dependent on a ZIRP, which goes beyond simply 'more credit'.
vonmoltke 11y ago
According to Google[1], the median salary for a lawyer in the US is $113,530 and for a software engineer is $93,350. Considering a lawyer requires a Masters degree and a software engineer typically (but not necessarily) only has a Bachelors, I don't think there is much effective difference. On top of that, the median starting salary for lawyers is $62,000[2], which I think is significantly less than the median for software engineers. Lawyers also graduate with significantly higher debt load. Doctors are a different ball of wax. They require effectively PhD-level education plus a seriously underpaid multi-year residency before they can actually practice. They also have debt loads that make law degrees look cheap. [1] Search "lawyer salary" and "software engineer salary" [2] http://money.cnn.com/2014/07/15/pf/jobs/lawyer-salaries/ http://money.cnn.com/2014/07/15/pf/jobs/lawyer-salaries/
- repiret 11y ago
  Lawyers have a doctorate - it's what the D in JD stands for.
  - geebee 11y ago
    True, but if I have a bouquet of carnations and call it a dozen roses, that doesn't make it so. A law degree is an almost entirely coursework based degree with no dissertation. Attrition rates at elite law schools are vanishingly low (like, less than a half of a percent, whereas PhDs are as high as 50%, 100 times higher). Undergraduate majors prior to law school tend to be the easier ones. They're smart and hard working students, but no, I wouldn't consider a law degree to be a "doctoral" level accomplishment by any external standard. Personally, I think that simply majoring in CS or other rigorous undergraduate majors represents a greater academic accomplishment than Poly Sci or Lit + Law School. Think of it this way - to me, a law degree is like running for 70 minutes at an 8 minute mile pace. Not bad, you're certainly fit. Majoring in CS at a tough program is like running a 6 minute mile for 40 minutes. You aren't running as long, or even as far, but the athletic challenge is greater.
  - dragonwriter 11y ago
    Lawyers in the US (though not much of the rest of the English-speaking world) have a "doctorate" because American lawyers got tired of physicians having a professional doctorate while lawyers only had a bachelor's degree, which is how the LL.B. (Bachelor of Laws) got transformed into the JD (Juris Doctor) -- a legacy of that is that the LL.M. (Master of Laws) is a post-JD degree, reversing the usual order of Masters vs. Doctorate degrees (and beyond that is the DJS/SJD -- Doctor of Juridical Science.)
    - go1979 11y ago
      Top echelon PhDs don't get paid as much as lawyers or doctors of similar caliber btw.
    - sandworm101 11y ago
      Tired, but the switch to the JD also has to do with the US draft. They wanted attorneys who were drafted to be paid on par with other pros like dentists. And the upgrade away from the 'undergrad' label had advantages for those students taking deferments. The standard 2-year deferment for gradschool didn't cover the 3 years needed for law school. Lawschool is a strange thing somewhere between a gradschool and a doctorate. It's a professional school that, like med school, isn't directly comparable to other degree programs.
- sandworm101 11y ago
  Lawyers require much more than a law degree. There are background checks, multi-day exams, mandatory professional development, insurance and all manner of ethical obligations. Licensed engineers have some professional burdens but they pale in comparison.

by quonn 11y ago

dovereconomics 11y ago

Even if unrealizable business don't pay very much(close to doctors/lawyers), it still is a distortion in the market that wouldn't be possible in a free market. Btw, big players are also dependent on a ZIRP, which goes beyond simply 'more credit'.

vonmoltke 11y ago

According to Google[1], the median salary for a lawyer in the US is $113,530 and for a software engineer is $93,350. Considering a lawyer requires a Masters degree and a software engineer typically (but not necessarily) only has a Bachelors, I don't think there is much effective difference. On top of that, the median starting salary for lawyers is $62,000[2], which I think is significantly less than the median for software engineers. Lawyers also graduate with significantly higher debt load. Doctors are a different ball of wax. They require effectively PhD-level education plus a seriously underpaid multi-year residency before they can actually practice. They also have debt loads that make law degrees look cheap. [1] Search "lawyer salary" and "software engineer salary" [2] http://money.cnn.com/2014/07/15/pf/jobs/lawyer-salaries/ http://money.cnn.com/2014/07/15/pf/jobs/lawyer-salaries/

repiret 11y ago
Lawyers have a doctorate - it's what the D in JD stands for.
- geebee 11y ago
  True, but if I have a bouquet of carnations and call it a dozen roses, that doesn't make it so. A law degree is an almost entirely coursework based degree with no dissertation. Attrition rates at elite law schools are vanishingly low (like, less than a half of a percent, whereas PhDs are as high as 50%, 100 times higher). Undergraduate majors prior to law school tend to be the easier ones. They're smart and hard working students, but no, I wouldn't consider a law degree to be a "doctoral" level accomplishment by any external standard. Personally, I think that simply majoring in CS or other rigorous undergraduate majors represents a greater academic accomplishment than Poly Sci or Lit + Law School. Think of it this way - to me, a law degree is like running for 70 minutes at an 8 minute mile pace. Not bad, you're certainly fit. Majoring in CS at a tough program is like running a 6 minute mile for 40 minutes. You aren't running as long, or even as far, but the athletic challenge is greater.
- dragonwriter 11y ago
  Lawyers in the US (though not much of the rest of the English-speaking world) have a "doctorate" because American lawyers got tired of physicians having a professional doctorate while lawyers only had a bachelor's degree, which is how the LL.B. (Bachelor of Laws) got transformed into the JD (Juris Doctor) -- a legacy of that is that the LL.M. (Master of Laws) is a post-JD degree, reversing the usual order of Masters vs. Doctorate degrees (and beyond that is the DJS/SJD -- Doctor of Juridical Science.)
  - go1979 11y ago
    Top echelon PhDs don't get paid as much as lawyers or doctors of similar caliber btw.
  - sandworm101 11y ago
    Tired, but the switch to the JD also has to do with the US draft. They wanted attorneys who were drafted to be paid on par with other pros like dentists. And the upgrade away from the 'undergrad' label had advantages for those students taking deferments. The standard 2-year deferment for gradschool didn't cover the 3 years needed for law school. Lawschool is a strange thing somewhere between a gradschool and a doctorate. It's a professional school that, like med school, isn't directly comparable to other degree programs.
sandworm101 11y ago
Lawyers require much more than a law degree. There are background checks, multi-day exams, mandatory professional development, insurance and all manner of ethical obligations. Licensed engineers have some professional burdens but they pale in comparison.