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> I guess they think typical business is like Google or Amazon or something. Exactly. Many in the EU imagine that "business owner" is a synonym for "evil capit

> I guess they think typical business is like Google or Amazon or something. Exactly. Many in the EU imagine that "business owner" is a synonym for "evil capitalist plutocrat." For them, if you are not someone's employee, you are by definition rich. Questions of scale are ignored.

PythonicAlpha 11y ago
I don't think, that so many (at least educated) people in the EU believe that ... but the problem is (and I saw evidence for that again and again), that the politicians like to talk about the "Founder culture" or that they want to aid smaller businesses ... but in fact, they do the absolute opposite. I see that, because at least in Germany (where it is very chic in the political class to talk how to aid smaller businesses and startups ...!) the tax rules are in favor of the big corporations (they have been changed in the last decades, so the corporations got better and better conditions) ... but of course this relieves for the big ones must be compensated somehow -- so the smaller companies have to pay even more taxes. The current VATMOSS legislation is also a good example: It was announced to be a means to counter the fact that bigger corporations like Amazon avoid VAT by having subsidiaries in Luxembourg. But the biggest problems with the new rulings have now the smaller companies, that never had the chance to open subsidiaries in Luxembourg. For Amazon it is a small drawback and they may have to raise some prices -- but the troubles of other companies are tremendous. So: The politicians are talking much about smaller companies -- but are only thinking about the bigger ones. And in Germany, many laws are even written by people from the bigger corporations.
- wobbleblob 11y ago
  I know two people who tried to start a business in Germany and failed, not because of the EU but because of domestic, German rules. One tried to start some kind of innovative form of pharmacy (the details weren't clear to me), but found himself unable to join the pharmacy guild, and apparently it is illegal to start a business without joining the guild. The other tried to start a bed & breakfast business, but the 'breakfast' part was closed down indefinitely when the food safety inspection found he didn't have the right license for a Sandwichtoaster. Apparently there are different regulations for serving a hot breakfast.
  - maze-le 11y ago
    In germany there is a saying: "If you work independently, you are always with one foot in jail". It is not unreasonable either, because I know of accountants and laywers (ie: people who do this all the time) who sometimes get lost in the jungle of regulations and decrees (European, National, Subnational, Communal, Branch of work, Union/Worker-regulations etc.). It is also no uncommon for some regulations, depending on the type of work, to be mutually exclusive. I live in germany and I am willing to be independent in the mid-term (~ 2-4 years), but I have major doubts about doing it here...
    - wobbleblob 11y ago
      Look across your north western border. Many people, especially in the tech and creative industries, work as freelancers there. As long as you have no employees other than yourself, it is made very easy.
      - maze-le 11y ago
        Thanks, i'll keep that in mind
      - PythonicAlpha 11y ago
        When you look over the borders, maybe (can you be a little more specific, btw?). In Germany, being a freelancer can be a big hassle, again! There is currently again a hunt for so called "Scheinselbstaendige" (Fictious-self-employed) and when they catch you (even when you are really self-employed, they just don't agree with you) you can be held liable for it and have to pay huge compensations. It is even worse, because there are different degrees of it and the situation is every time different. So they have different ways to hold you liable for something, you have not done. Here a link from a German organization of self-employed people that informs about the current situation and what is planned (it is planned to worsen the situation): (sorry, only in German) http://www.vgsd.de/kampagne-scheinselbststaendigkeit/ http://www.vgsd.de/kampagne-scheinselbststaendigkeit/ The big corporations, of course, which really use different models to betray the social system and their employed people, they have the lawyers and the tricks to come away with it. And again, they are the reason for this hunt ... because they are searching for ways to cut costs -- the state tries to close the holes that make such things possible -- but currently the only people they hurt, are those that are innocent, because the big corporations are always ahead of the game. And additionally I am not sure, if the politicians are really willing to hurt the real big players, because those have so much power -- so they merely show "actionism" and make laws that are ineffective or even hurt innocent people. At the end (if by intention or just stupidity), they hurt the country ... but we Germans still vote for those people!

PythonicAlpha 11y ago

I don't think, that so many (at least educated) people in the EU believe that ... but the problem is (and I saw evidence for that again and again), that the politicians like to talk about the "Founder culture" or that they want to aid smaller businesses ... but in fact, they do the absolute opposite. I see that, because at least in Germany (where it is very chic in the political class to talk how to aid smaller businesses and startups ...!) the tax rules are in favor of the big corporations (they have been changed in the last decades, so the corporations got better and better conditions) ... but of course this relieves for the big ones must be compensated somehow -- so the smaller companies have to pay even more taxes. The current VATMOSS legislation is also a good example: It was announced to be a means to counter the fact that bigger corporations like Amazon avoid VAT by having subsidiaries in Luxembourg. But the biggest problems with the new rulings have now the smaller companies, that never had the chance to open subsidiaries in Luxembourg. For Amazon it is a small drawback and they may have to raise some prices -- but the troubles of other companies are tremendous. So: The politicians are talking much about smaller companies -- but are only thinking about the bigger ones. And in Germany, many laws are even written by people from the bigger corporations.

wobbleblob 11y ago
I know two people who tried to start a business in Germany and failed, not because of the EU but because of domestic, German rules. One tried to start some kind of innovative form of pharmacy (the details weren't clear to me), but found himself unable to join the pharmacy guild, and apparently it is illegal to start a business without joining the guild. The other tried to start a bed & breakfast business, but the 'breakfast' part was closed down indefinitely when the food safety inspection found he didn't have the right license for a Sandwichtoaster. Apparently there are different regulations for serving a hot breakfast.
- maze-le 11y ago
  In germany there is a saying: "If you work independently, you are always with one foot in jail". It is not unreasonable either, because I know of accountants and laywers (ie: people who do this all the time) who sometimes get lost in the jungle of regulations and decrees (European, National, Subnational, Communal, Branch of work, Union/Worker-regulations etc.). It is also no uncommon for some regulations, depending on the type of work, to be mutually exclusive. I live in germany and I am willing to be independent in the mid-term (~ 2-4 years), but I have major doubts about doing it here...
  - wobbleblob 11y ago
    Look across your north western border. Many people, especially in the tech and creative industries, work as freelancers there. As long as you have no employees other than yourself, it is made very easy.
    - maze-le 11y ago
      Thanks, i'll keep that in mind
    - PythonicAlpha 11y ago
      When you look over the borders, maybe (can you be a little more specific, btw?). In Germany, being a freelancer can be a big hassle, again! There is currently again a hunt for so called "Scheinselbstaendige" (Fictious-self-employed) and when they catch you (even when you are really self-employed, they just don't agree with you) you can be held liable for it and have to pay huge compensations. It is even worse, because there are different degrees of it and the situation is every time different. So they have different ways to hold you liable for something, you have not done. Here a link from a German organization of self-employed people that informs about the current situation and what is planned (it is planned to worsen the situation): (sorry, only in German) http://www.vgsd.de/kampagne-scheinselbststaendigkeit/ http://www.vgsd.de/kampagne-scheinselbststaendigkeit/ The big corporations, of course, which really use different models to betray the social system and their employed people, they have the lawyers and the tricks to come away with it. And again, they are the reason for this hunt ... because they are searching for ways to cut costs -- the state tries to close the holes that make such things possible -- but currently the only people they hurt, are those that are innocent, because the big corporations are always ahead of the game. And additionally I am not sure, if the politicians are really willing to hurt the real big players, because those have so much power -- so they merely show "actionism" and make laws that are ineffective or even hurt innocent people. At the end (if by intention or just stupidity), they hurt the country ... but we Germans still vote for those people!