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As an employer and an employee I know this much. Never ever use another offer as leverage, both the employer and the employee need to come to the table with go

As an employer and an employee I know this much. Never ever use another offer as leverage, both the employer and the employee need to come to the table with good intentions. Asking for more money is usual business, both for employers and employees, but with more money you are asking you need to explain why you are worth more money, why I as your employer need to pay you more. For most part, when someone goes after other offers, even if you give him a raise, he/she will leave after since it's a symptom of not being happy and being confused that more money will make you happy, but it doesn't. If an employee used another offer as leverage with me, I would probably 1) not give him a raise, 2) give him notice. Lot of people come into those negotiations stressed out and assume that there's some magic behind it, there isn't, be honest, completely honest, state your case and more often than not you will get what you want. As a rule, I never lie to my employer and I expect the same from my employees, same with people interviewing. I think it's wrong asking "how much are you making now in your current company?" during an interview, but if I was asked that I would be honest and I would not even say 1$ more than what I was making. You can explain why you think you deserve more, but never lie about how much you are making during an interview.

s73v3r 11y ago
"Never ever use another offer as leverage, both the employer and the employee need to come to the table with good intentions." More often than not, employers won't give raises unless you do. "If an employee used another offer as leverage with me, I would probably 1) not give him a raise, 2) give him notice." Then you're a terrible manager who likely will drive out all of their talent.
- avitzurel 11y ago
  Yeah well, I guess I needed to be much clearer than what I was otherwise snarky HN comments are to be expected. "More often than not, employers won't give raises unless you do" That might be true, but you still should not use another offer as leverage during negotiations, that's bad either way. "Then you're a terrible manager who likely will drive out all of their talent." Well, thanks, I really appreciate HN compliments and that one is definitely one of the best :) I can't think of a single case when using another offer as leverage and saying "if I don't get X, I am leaving" is good, not a single one. I do however think that no matter how much you are asking, if you are respectful and you are worth it to the company, you will get it.
  - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
    It may be badly stated, but the sentiment I agree with. If I can show you how you undervalue my work (here's somebody who would pay more) then that's coming to the table with honest intentions. Its saying "I'd like to stay, but I feel underappreciated. What can you do to correct that?" I see no reason to reject that argument out of hand. Since no rationale was given for the policy of serving them notice if somebody speaks up, its fair to observe that its probably going to lose you some good people.
    - avitzurel 11y ago
      With that, I agree 100%. I had the exact same situation with an employee about 3 years ago, the client he was working with offered him a job with more money that he was making. After a discussion with him, he said "I am happy here, but I cannot turn my back on so much more money" (it was 40% more). This is completely different than what described with intentionally going out to get another offer just for leverage when you want a raise. That has respect, it has honesty and that is something I am completely on board with.
      - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
        My colleague considers every annual review as a renewed offer of employment. With that mindset, periodically interviewing for other jobs is a normal thing to do; you take the best offer you get. In this world view, going out to get another offer isn't 'for leverage', its part of a career process that makes sense.
logfromblammo 11y ago
If I were taking an offer in hand to my current employer, it would probably only be to help explain why I'm leaving, if asked. If I asked for anything at all, it would be on behalf of those who are remaining. I already made the decision to leave when I started looking for other jobs. I also refuse to give out my salary history in interviews. I think it just obscures the main issue. The employer needs to pay the employee the market value of their labor, whether it is in the offer letter or after the 10th year of performance reviews. Just because gas is $2/gallon today doesn't mean it won't be $3/gallon tomorrow. And I have never had to report at the pump what I paid for my last 10 fill-ups before learning the price I will have to pay for the current one. If you get a better offer, don't ask for a competing offer. Just leave. You shouldn't really even be volunteering to them what the offer is, or with whom. If your current employer offers a raise in a bid to keep you, let your soon-to-be-former co-workers know what they might want to ask for, and leave anyway. The fact that you have a new offer in hand means that you were already dissatisfied enough to start looking for alternatives in the first place. Remember that? Spitting out extra money only after you reveal you haven't been happy does not alter the fact that the company has not been making proactive efforts to keep you satisfied. Honestly, I don't want to have to ask for a raise. If I am forced to ask at all, don't make the mistake of thinking that I'm only going to ask my current employer. I'm going to be asking all of its competitors first. It may be mercenary, but I think it well warranted by the current conditions in the job markets.
- Jemmeh 11y ago
  May I ask how you tell them in interviews that you don't want to give them your previous salary? I've been trying to do that but they always take it poorly. I'm trying to figure out a better way to frame it.
- Amezarak 11y ago
  > The fact that you have a new offer in hand means that you were already dissatisfied enough to start looking for alternatives in the first place. Remember that? Spitting out extra money only after you reveal you haven't been happy does not alter the fact that the company has not been making proactive efforts to keep you satisfied. Not always. Sometimes it is just about the money. I left a job I loved very much because another job essentially landed in my lap offering 25k more. It's a lot less challenging, the skills aren't really transferable, and the work environment kind of sucks, but 25k is 25k.

s73v3r 11y ago

"Never ever use another offer as leverage, both the employer and the employee need to come to the table with good intentions." More often than not, employers won't give raises unless you do. "If an employee used another offer as leverage with me, I would probably 1) not give him a raise, 2) give him notice." Then you're a terrible manager who likely will drive out all of their talent.

avitzurel 11y ago
Yeah well, I guess I needed to be much clearer than what I was otherwise snarky HN comments are to be expected. "More often than not, employers won't give raises unless you do" That might be true, but you still should not use another offer as leverage during negotiations, that's bad either way. "Then you're a terrible manager who likely will drive out all of their talent." Well, thanks, I really appreciate HN compliments and that one is definitely one of the best :) I can't think of a single case when using another offer as leverage and saying "if I don't get X, I am leaving" is good, not a single one. I do however think that no matter how much you are asking, if you are respectful and you are worth it to the company, you will get it.
- JoeAltmaier 11y ago
  It may be badly stated, but the sentiment I agree with. If I can show you how you undervalue my work (here's somebody who would pay more) then that's coming to the table with honest intentions. Its saying "I'd like to stay, but I feel underappreciated. What can you do to correct that?" I see no reason to reject that argument out of hand. Since no rationale was given for the policy of serving them notice if somebody speaks up, its fair to observe that its probably going to lose you some good people.
  - avitzurel 11y ago
    With that, I agree 100%. I had the exact same situation with an employee about 3 years ago, the client he was working with offered him a job with more money that he was making. After a discussion with him, he said "I am happy here, but I cannot turn my back on so much more money" (it was 40% more). This is completely different than what described with intentionally going out to get another offer just for leverage when you want a raise. That has respect, it has honesty and that is something I am completely on board with.
    - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
      My colleague considers every annual review as a renewed offer of employment. With that mindset, periodically interviewing for other jobs is a normal thing to do; you take the best offer you get. In this world view, going out to get another offer isn't 'for leverage', its part of a career process that makes sense.

logfromblammo 11y ago

If I were taking an offer in hand to my current employer, it would probably only be to help explain why I'm leaving, if asked. If I asked for anything at all, it would be on behalf of those who are remaining. I already made the decision to leave when I started looking for other jobs. I also refuse to give out my salary history in interviews. I think it just obscures the main issue. The employer needs to pay the employee the market value of their labor, whether it is in the offer letter or after the 10th year of performance reviews. Just because gas is $2/gallon today doesn't mean it won't be $3/gallon tomorrow. And I have never had to report at the pump what I paid for my last 10 fill-ups before learning the price I will have to pay for the current one. If you get a better offer, don't ask for a competing offer. Just leave. You shouldn't really even be volunteering to them what the offer is, or with whom. If your current employer offers a raise in a bid to keep you, let your soon-to-be-former co-workers know what they might want to ask for, and leave anyway. The fact that you have a new offer in hand means that you were already dissatisfied enough to start looking for alternatives in the first place. Remember that? Spitting out extra money only after you reveal you haven't been happy does not alter the fact that the company has not been making proactive efforts to keep you satisfied. Honestly, I don't want to have to ask for a raise. If I am forced to ask at all, don't make the mistake of thinking that I'm only going to ask my current employer. I'm going to be asking all of its competitors first. It may be mercenary, but I think it well warranted by the current conditions in the job markets.

Jemmeh 11y ago
May I ask how you tell them in interviews that you don't want to give them your previous salary? I've been trying to do that but they always take it poorly. I'm trying to figure out a better way to frame it.
Amezarak 11y ago
> The fact that you have a new offer in hand means that you were already dissatisfied enough to start looking for alternatives in the first place. Remember that? Spitting out extra money only after you reveal you haven't been happy does not alter the fact that the company has not been making proactive efforts to keep you satisfied. Not always. Sometimes it is just about the money. I left a job I loved very much because another job essentially landed in my lap offering 25k more. It's a lot less challenging, the skills aren't really transferable, and the work environment kind of sucks, but 25k is 25k.