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OP's first mistake is only interviewing at 2 companies, which apparently both sucked. OP's second mistake is staying at the same company for so long despite th

OP's first mistake is only interviewing at 2 companies, which apparently both sucked. OP's second mistake is staying at the same company for so long despite the fact that (a) they have to fight for decent raises (b) the company sucks. Seriously, at the point where there are "serious problems in sales, engineers are leaving en masse", OP doubles down. They are now a highly paid manager in a sucky company. OP's third and worst mistake is equivocating: "there's no harm in lying about salary". That's delusional. Yes there is harm, they repeatedly lied, and now who knows what else they would lie about. That proves they have no sense of ethics. It's true other people do it. It's true the company will lay you off the second they decide to restructure. None of that accounts for an ounce of lost personal or professional integrity. In our world as developers, we regularly have access to intensely personal or valuable information. What harm could come if we fudge a little bit about how good is our security implementation? What harm could possibly come if someone happened to offer us, say, $100k for a little tidbit of info about user102532@gmail.com? No one will ever know, right?

blazespin 11y ago
LOL! Gimme a break. He had the balls to stick it out at the company and make manager, which sounds like where he wants his career to go. If everyone just bailed when times were tough, nothing would ever get done. All I can say is hats off to this guy. Our economy is built on this sort of drive.
- burnallofit 11y ago
  The simple fact is that 90%+ of startups fail. The economy is certainly not built on failure but rather on knowing when to redirect effort to where it will actually make a difference. Recognizing when a ship is sinking is critical to one's own career and economic situation.
draw_down 11y ago
Wow, I don't think that's a very good comparison at all. Do you really think claiming I make $70k in an interview, when I really make $65k, is the same as selling a user's information?!
Lawtonfogle 11y ago
>and now who knows what else they would lie about. That proves they have no sense of ethics. Every man whose wife asks 'Does this dress make me look fat?' is going to lie. No one is perfect; to use this to say they have no sense of ethics is poor reasoning.
joslin01 11y ago
I think the biggest problem with equivocating or lying in general is that you're not truly owning up to your actual situation. OP didn't get offer 70k; he got offered 65k. Maybe that's what he's better worth or maybe he did a poor job interviewing for that job. Regardless, he got offered 65k and that was his reality. Now instead of owning up to it, he changed it to a nicer sounding number -- 70k. This is where things get interesting. Why not 75k? What's the harm if you're lying anyway? Perhap he didn't think it would be believable because he didn't think he was worth that much. If the employer actually checked his facts, they would have known he was lying and got annoyed. Yet it's fascinating to me that he went for 70k -- a mere 5k more. OP - I went from making ~100k/yr to 175k/yr because I knew I had the power in the relationship and was probably not tricked by same things you were. I built value in myself and in the work I was doing, and therefore when it came time to negotiate, I shot for the stars and never backed down. I sound about your same age and never had to do it by lying or equivocating or any of these silly games. I did it by building value in myself. This is all you can truly do at the end of the day and then it's about staying firm in what your value is worth. Games will always be games and they are sprinkled with the fairy dust of "5k more" here and another small lie there, but they will never be able to match someone who is truly genuine through and through. These are the types where if they're not worth 70k, they work to make themselves worth 70k (whether thru negotiation or value-building or both). That's the difference and that's why some people don't like to lie.
- porker 11y ago
  > I built value in myself and in the work I was doing More details of how you built value in yourself would be great.

blazespin 11y ago

LOL! Gimme a break. He had the balls to stick it out at the company and make manager, which sounds like where he wants his career to go. If everyone just bailed when times were tough, nothing would ever get done. All I can say is hats off to this guy. Our economy is built on this sort of drive.

burnallofit 11y ago
The simple fact is that 90%+ of startups fail. The economy is certainly not built on failure but rather on knowing when to redirect effort to where it will actually make a difference. Recognizing when a ship is sinking is critical to one's own career and economic situation.

draw_down 11y ago

Wow, I don't think that's a very good comparison at all. Do you really think claiming I make $70k in an interview, when I really make $65k, is the same as selling a user's information?!

Lawtonfogle 11y ago

>and now who knows what else they would lie about. That proves they have no sense of ethics. Every man whose wife asks 'Does this dress make me look fat?' is going to lie. No one is perfect; to use this to say they have no sense of ethics is poor reasoning.

joslin01 11y ago

I think the biggest problem with equivocating or lying in general is that you're not truly owning up to your actual situation. OP didn't get offer 70k; he got offered 65k. Maybe that's what he's better worth or maybe he did a poor job interviewing for that job. Regardless, he got offered 65k and that was his reality. Now instead of owning up to it, he changed it to a nicer sounding number -- 70k. This is where things get interesting. Why not 75k? What's the harm if you're lying anyway? Perhap he didn't think it would be believable because he didn't think he was worth that much. If the employer actually checked his facts, they would have known he was lying and got annoyed. Yet it's fascinating to me that he went for 70k -- a mere 5k more. OP - I went from making ~100k/yr to 175k/yr because I knew I had the power in the relationship and was probably not tricked by same things you were. I built value in myself and in the work I was doing, and therefore when it came time to negotiate, I shot for the stars and never backed down. I sound about your same age and never had to do it by lying or equivocating or any of these silly games. I did it by building value in myself. This is all you can truly do at the end of the day and then it's about staying firm in what your value is worth. Games will always be games and they are sprinkled with the fairy dust of "5k more" here and another small lie there, but they will never be able to match someone who is truly genuine through and through. These are the types where if they're not worth 70k, they work to make themselves worth 70k (whether thru negotiation or value-building or both). That's the difference and that's why some people don't like to lie.

porker 11y ago
> I built value in myself and in the work I was doing More details of how you built value in yourself would be great.