4 ms·

The 'leveling' power of the web is an illusion. The web is controlled by those who have the resources to develop and distribute web browsers, which is a tiny e

by gress 11y ago

The 'leveling' power of the web is an illusion. The web is controlled by those who have the resources to develop and distribute web browsers, which is a tiny elite at this point. The leveling power was never about the web - it was inherent to the Internet and open source. What we needed was a true open-source app platform that was a community property the way Linux was. If we had that, it wouldn't matter what Apple did. Unfortunately Google killed that dream with Android.

untog 11y ago
> The 'leveling' power of the web is an illusion. The web is controlled by those who have the resources to develop and distribute web browsers, which is a tiny elite at this point. Not even slightly. If I wanted to, I could post a .txt file on an HTTP server somewhere and anyone could consume it. More broadly, web browser are accessible to all, and anyone can put a web page online. That's not true with apps at all.
- dragonwriter 11y ago
  > If I wanted to, I could post a .txt file on an HTTP server somewhere and anyone could consume it. Sure, right now. Of course, the browser manufacturers are moving to actively discourage that by flagging HTTP as unsafe, as a first step to blocking it by default. At which point you'll have to use HTTPS for most people to be able to see it, which means you'll have to go through someone with a relationship with a root CA trusted by browser vendors to make content visible to the public, which means, again, back to the web being controlled by those who develop and distribute web browsers.
  - candu 11y ago
    ...which is why Let's Encrypt (https://letsencrypt.org/ https://letsencrypt.org/) is awesome. Also, HTTP is unsafe. Also also, "those who develop and distribute web browsers" are not a uniform cabal of shadowy conspirators. You are, of course, always welcome to use Firefox, Chromium, or any of the sundry other open-source browsers out there.
    - fenomas 11y ago
      > "those who develop and distribute web browsers" are not a uniform cabal of shadowy conspirators. Unless you're using iOS, of course. (HHOS)
fenomas 11y ago
> The 'leveling' power of the web is an illusion. The web is controlled by those who .. develop and distribute web browsers I mean the leveling power of open content exchange, not the current technical particulars. If browser wars mess up HTML badly enough the world can invent a better system, or at least it could have. But once everyone gets their internet though walled-garden devices, that ship has sailed.
- gress 11y ago
  We're in agreement on that - which is why I made the comment about Android. We had a chance for that to be open, but Google wanted to retain control.
- happyscrappy 11y ago
  Apple has built in VPN and Tor support so at some point you have to wonder if Apple haters are suffering a type of Stockholm syndrome.
  - fenomas 11y ago
    I don't think "Stockholm Syndrome" means what you think it means.
mark_l_watson 11y ago
re: "Unfortunately Google killed that dream with Android" I am curious why you think that since Android seems a little more open than iOS? I mostly run Linux (one Mac laptop, 3 Linux laptops) and I do get that owning your own hardware, using open source software, and prefering to use your own domain and web site for your business and general web presense is the way to go. I think that we are in agreement. That said if I am wasting some time reading Twitter using the default web browser on my Android phone, that seems like the same experience using a web browser on my laptop.
- gress 11y ago
  It is a little more open than iOS - that's the problem. It isn't really open - just a little more than iOS. Apple was never going to make an open system, but Google could have done.

by gress 11y ago

untog 11y ago

> The 'leveling' power of the web is an illusion. The web is controlled by those who have the resources to develop and distribute web browsers, which is a tiny elite at this point. Not even slightly. If I wanted to, I could post a .txt file on an HTTP server somewhere and anyone could consume it. More broadly, web browser are accessible to all, and anyone can put a web page online. That's not true with apps at all.

dragonwriter 11y ago
> If I wanted to, I could post a .txt file on an HTTP server somewhere and anyone could consume it. Sure, right now. Of course, the browser manufacturers are moving to actively discourage that by flagging HTTP as unsafe, as a first step to blocking it by default. At which point you'll have to use HTTPS for most people to be able to see it, which means you'll have to go through someone with a relationship with a root CA trusted by browser vendors to make content visible to the public, which means, again, back to the web being controlled by those who develop and distribute web browsers.
- candu 11y ago
  ...which is why Let's Encrypt (https://letsencrypt.org/ https://letsencrypt.org/) is awesome. Also, HTTP is unsafe. Also also, "those who develop and distribute web browsers" are not a uniform cabal of shadowy conspirators. You are, of course, always welcome to use Firefox, Chromium, or any of the sundry other open-source browsers out there.
  - fenomas 11y ago
    > "those who develop and distribute web browsers" are not a uniform cabal of shadowy conspirators. Unless you're using iOS, of course. (HHOS)

fenomas 11y ago

> The 'leveling' power of the web is an illusion. The web is controlled by those who .. develop and distribute web browsers I mean the leveling power of open content exchange, not the current technical particulars. If browser wars mess up HTML badly enough the world can invent a better system, or at least it could have. But once everyone gets their internet though walled-garden devices, that ship has sailed.

gress 11y ago
We're in agreement on that - which is why I made the comment about Android. We had a chance for that to be open, but Google wanted to retain control.
happyscrappy 11y ago
Apple has built in VPN and Tor support so at some point you have to wonder if Apple haters are suffering a type of Stockholm syndrome.
- fenomas 11y ago
  I don't think "Stockholm Syndrome" means what you think it means.

mark_l_watson 11y ago

re: "Unfortunately Google killed that dream with Android" I am curious why you think that since Android seems a little more open than iOS? I mostly run Linux (one Mac laptop, 3 Linux laptops) and I do get that owning your own hardware, using open source software, and prefering to use your own domain and web site for your business and general web presense is the way to go. I think that we are in agreement. That said if I am wasting some time reading Twitter using the default web browser on my Android phone, that seems like the same experience using a web browser on my laptop.

gress 11y ago
It is a little more open than iOS - that's the problem. It isn't really open - just a little more than iOS. Apple was never going to make an open system, but Google could have done.