5 ms·

Why is infrastructure in quotes? Are roads, healthcare, police, fire service, etc imaginary?

by jamespo 11y ago

grandalf 11y ago
A very tiny percentage taxes actually pays for things that qualify as infrastructure. The rest pays for things that are far less transparent and far more corrupt(able), not to mention blatant wealth transfers to influential interest groups.
- furytrader 11y ago
  By influential interest groups, do you mean Social Security, Welfare, Medicare and Medicaid? Because that's roughly 60% of Federal spending.
  - kevin_thibedeau 11y ago
    Much of which is spent on the over-inflated cost structure of healthcare providers gaming the system.
omouse 11y ago
Considering that most roads and bridges are falling apart and that healthcare is woefully underfunded in some areas and the police are overfunded and have enough $$$ for military-grade gear, there's a good reason to put infrastructure in quotes...
- rqebmm 11y ago
  The police aren't spending money on military-grade gear, they're being gifted surplus from the military. It's a minor distinction, but it's the difference between "we spend too much on the defense industry" and "we are allocating local budgets to militarizing the police".
  - dragonwriter 11y ago
    > The police aren't spending money on military-grade gear, they're being gifted surplus from the military. They're spending money training on it, storing it, operating it, and organizing operations around it so that they can justify receiving and keeping it, as well as in personnel costs associated with the staff time devoted to doing the research, applications, etc., to be awarded it. They may not be purchasing it, but its not appearing and hanging around without expenditure of department resources.
- superuser2 11y ago
  Infrastructure is falling apart because people like the grandparent commenter succesfully reduce its funding. The conservative strategy works shockingly well: defund government, appoint administrators who are actvely opposed to the existence of the programs they run, then sit back and claim that government can't do anything right.
  - grandalf 11y ago
    > people like the grandparent commenter Not sure whose comment you are referring to. My comment was intended to illustrate some properties institutions built by primates with guns. Obviously, governments (and criminal organizations) provide some valuable services to society (employment, structure, resource allocation, etc.) The current status quo society and government provides lots of opportunity to some, and virtually no opportunity to others. "Criminality" provides a different distribution of opportunity. Drawing a firm distinction between legitimate and criminal pursuits is a profoundly conservative worldview.
    - wfo 11y ago
      Criminality is defined by the law (i.e. government) so of course criminal pursuits are distinct from government ones: criminal pursuits are those pursuits the government doesn't approve of. This isn't a conservative or liberal worldview, it is fact and what the words mean. Whether or not this distinction is legitimate and meaningful is another debate. And it seems you're conflating your economic system with our government; the society we have is because our government is toothless and unable to take real action, we are subject to the brutal whims of capitalism. Every time someone suggests we wield the power of our government to better our society it's decried as "socialist" and fails. So with effective government effectively banned by conservatives, we are left with ineffective government. Which gives conservatives more ammunition to ban any remaining government. And you seem to wholly omit the consent of the governed; perhaps you reject it as a principle, and perhaps you simply don't wish to acknowledge its existence. In the first case, you should be aware your position is an extremist ideological one and shared by almost no-one outside of academic philosophy. In the second, this is a serious omission since it is the obvious counterpoint to your entire argument above.
- hsod 11y ago
  Can you be more specific? Are there roads and bridges near you that you can't drive upon? In what way is healthcare woefully underfunded?
  - aswanson 11y ago
    Re: bridges and roads, it's hard to run experiments, and its usually too late once you do: http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2014/08/01/friday-marks-7-years-since-i-35w-bridge-collapse/ http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2014/08/01/friday-marks-7-year... Also: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/09/15/bridges-need-repair/2816881/ http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/09/15/bridges... Healthcare is too subject to devolve in political argument for me, someone else has to put up some data on that one.
- facepalm 11y ago
  Really? Try living in the jungle for a year, perhaps then you'll start to appreciate civilization, even if it is not perfect.

Why is infrastructure in quotes? Are roads, healthcare, police, fire service, etc imaginary?

by jamespo 11y ago

Why is infrastructure in quotes? Are roads, healthcare, police, fire service, etc imaginary?

A very tiny percentage taxes actually pays for things that qualify as infrastructure. The rest pays for things that are far less transparent and far more corrupt(able), not to mention blatant wealth transfers to influential interest groups.

furytrader 11y ago
By influential interest groups, do you mean Social Security, Welfare, Medicare and Medicaid? Because that's roughly 60% of Federal spending.
- kevin_thibedeau 11y ago
  Much of which is spent on the over-inflated cost structure of healthcare providers gaming the system.

omouse 11y ago

Considering that most roads and bridges are falling apart and that healthcare is woefully underfunded in some areas and the police are overfunded and have enough $$$ for military-grade gear, there's a good reason to put infrastructure in quotes...

rqebmm 11y ago
The police aren't spending money on military-grade gear, they're being gifted surplus from the military. It's a minor distinction, but it's the difference between "we spend too much on the defense industry" and "we are allocating local budgets to militarizing the police".
- dragonwriter 11y ago
  > The police aren't spending money on military-grade gear, they're being gifted surplus from the military. They're spending money training on it, storing it, operating it, and organizing operations around it so that they can justify receiving and keeping it, as well as in personnel costs associated with the staff time devoted to doing the research, applications, etc., to be awarded it. They may not be purchasing it, but its not appearing and hanging around without expenditure of department resources.
superuser2 11y ago
Infrastructure is falling apart because people like the grandparent commenter succesfully reduce its funding. The conservative strategy works shockingly well: defund government, appoint administrators who are actvely opposed to the existence of the programs they run, then sit back and claim that government can't do anything right.
- grandalf 11y ago
  > people like the grandparent commenter Not sure whose comment you are referring to. My comment was intended to illustrate some properties institutions built by primates with guns. Obviously, governments (and criminal organizations) provide some valuable services to society (employment, structure, resource allocation, etc.) The current status quo society and government provides lots of opportunity to some, and virtually no opportunity to others. "Criminality" provides a different distribution of opportunity. Drawing a firm distinction between legitimate and criminal pursuits is a profoundly conservative worldview.
  - wfo 11y ago
    Criminality is defined by the law (i.e. government) so of course criminal pursuits are distinct from government ones: criminal pursuits are those pursuits the government doesn't approve of. This isn't a conservative or liberal worldview, it is fact and what the words mean. Whether or not this distinction is legitimate and meaningful is another debate. And it seems you're conflating your economic system with our government; the society we have is because our government is toothless and unable to take real action, we are subject to the brutal whims of capitalism. Every time someone suggests we wield the power of our government to better our society it's decried as "socialist" and fails. So with effective government effectively banned by conservatives, we are left with ineffective government. Which gives conservatives more ammunition to ban any remaining government. And you seem to wholly omit the consent of the governed; perhaps you reject it as a principle, and perhaps you simply don't wish to acknowledge its existence. In the first case, you should be aware your position is an extremist ideological one and shared by almost no-one outside of academic philosophy. In the second, this is a serious omission since it is the obvious counterpoint to your entire argument above.
hsod 11y ago
Can you be more specific? Are there roads and bridges near you that you can't drive upon? In what way is healthcare woefully underfunded?
- aswanson 11y ago
  Re: bridges and roads, it's hard to run experiments, and its usually too late once you do: http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2014/08/01/friday-marks-7-years-since-i-35w-bridge-collapse/ http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2014/08/01/friday-marks-7-year... Also: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/09/15/bridges-need-repair/2816881/ http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/09/15/bridges... Healthcare is too subject to devolve in political argument for me, someone else has to put up some data on that one.
facepalm 11y ago
Really? Try living in the jungle for a year, perhaps then you'll start to appreciate civilization, even if it is not perfect.